Trump order freezes funding for Illinois EV charging network

[luebri]

The fact that it took 2 years to spin up the priocess for funding is not great, but, things are happening. At least, they were until the change of administration. Not sure what the status of these things will be now.

My understanding is The initial funding has been dispersed to the states. I doubt that can or will be touched. (unfortunate if you have my viewpoint, which I know not many here do)

The link with the MAP you sent show 23 sites energized. Hardly dozens per week. I could care less what been announced. What has been energized?

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[Firn]

I understand everything you stated. You make my argument for me. All those reasons are reasons I did not support NEVI funding.

So you reject the idea of NEVI funding, not because of the funding itself and what it provides, but because it will take 3 years instead of 1 year to build a charger designed to provide service for decades?

 

[RickE]

The current administration is going to push the envelope as much as they can get away with in order to adopt "their" policies, and will make you beat them in court. This is why getting "their" judges in place is so important for them.

That said I don't really care for some of the things that the "other guys" were advocating for either. What's a centrist to do?

Why haven't this post been deleted for talking politics?

 

[RickE]

Yes, and also I think it's important to recognize that while both parties have broken the law that's where the similarities end on a range of problems. Each party has their own motivations that may help or hurt you depending on your socio-economic status.

I'm pointing this out here because I have seen this fact get tossed out there plenty of times in good faith and in bad (and I always assume it's in good faith unless shown otherwise). And every time it devolves into a sentiment of "Both parties are the same." And they are not the same.

Why haven't this post been deleted for talking politics?

 

[Maineiac12]

So you reject the idea of NEVI funding, not because of the funding itself and what it provides, but because it will take 3 years instead of 1 year to build a charger designed to provide service for decades?

Sounds like his problem is with government bureaucracy and not so much the chargers themselves. The sad part is that the oversight is needed because over the years congress has demanded accountability over how tax dollars are spent.

The 7 chargers for $3 billion was always misinformation and a disingenuous argument. The money is the maximum that can be spent over the lifetime of the program. The issue is that the feds left it up to each individual state to administer how and when their money was spent. And again, due to contract rules around tax dollars, studies had to be done, proposals written, bids taken, etc.

I look at NEVI in a similar vein to rural electrification. It is using government money to help taxpayers get into the future today where it may not be economically feasible for private companies due to ROI. At least in my state, the NEVI money was targeted at gaps in rural parts of the interstate that were fast charging deserts. Putting chargers in these rural areas is desperately needed to enable long distance travel for EVERYONE.

I’d rather the government keep investing in infrastructure rather than direct subsidies to vehicle purchases. If we build it, more people will come.

 

[luebri]

So you reject the idea of NEVI funding, not because of the funding itself and what it provides, but because it will take 3 years instead of 1 year to build a charger designed to provide service for decades?

1) Main reason is I believe it should have been left to private market to sort itself out. Yes that would have taken a while, but so will this and would have cost taxpayers a lot less.

2) Government ineffectiveness on doing cost effective and timely projects.

You say 3 years, but that wont be the average. Not even close.

It's taken 3 to get 32 sites per https://www.paren.app/ so by no means the average, that will probably be close to 5 years just to get half way, by the time this all shakes out.

A sample of why I have that hypotheses, the attached document referring to Wisconsin Round 1 awards some of just the Round 1 projects are not scheduled to be in operation until Q4 2026. So that would be 5 years. So how long will Round 2 take... 8 years?!?! Keep in mind Wisconsin is one of the first 10 or so states to have some installs operational (3 sites so far)

Im also extremely dubious as to the longevity these sites will remain in operation. I know there are "up time" requirements, but I am very skeptical of how that will be executed in actuallity and the accountability metrics truly being followed.

 

[luebri]

Why haven't this post been deleted for talking politics?

Discussing anything with Government involvement is now politics? Instead of a world of censoring, I appreciate hearing and trying to understand various perspectives and like to believe most can handle it just fine. I do not believe anyone in this conversation has said anything "out of bounds".

 

[RickE]

Discussing anything with Government involvement is now politics? Instead of a world of censoring, I appreciate hearing and trying to understand various perspectives and like to believe most can handle it just fine. I do not believe anyone in this conversation has said anything "out of bounds".

Yes, unfortunately it does become political when some posts are deleted and censored for discussing "politics" and others are not. The post that are deleted are usually on one side and the other side is allowed to post whatever they want without being deleted. That is the fact.

 

[Firn]

1) Main reason is I believe it should have been left to private market to sort itself out. Yes that would have taken a while, but so will this and would have cost taxpayers a lot less.

2) Government ineffectiveness on doing cost effective and timely projects.

You say 3 years, but that wont be the average. Not even close.

It's taken 3 to get 32 sites per https://www.paren.app/ so by no means the average, that will probably be close to 5 years just to get half way, by the time this all shakes out.

A sample of why I have that hypotheses, the attached document referring to Wisconsin Round 1 awards some of just the Round 1 projects are not scheduled to be in operation until Q4 2026. So that would be 5 years. So how long will Round 2 take... 8 years?!?! Keep in mind Wisconsin is one of the first 10 or so states to have some installs operational (3 sites so far)

Im also extremely dubious as to the longevity these sites will remain in operation. I know there are "up time" requirements, but I am very skeptical of how that will be executed in actuallity and the accountability metrics truly being followed.

The private market will not, and never will, solve all things. Pure open unfettered "free market" is how you get Amazon and Walmart driving out all local business. Should parks be private market? Ambulance services? Complete free market is not the ideal solution. And as I said previously, existing products can become so optimized that they drive out competing products that are not initially cost competitive.

EVs are chicken and the egg, you need the chargers for them to compete with regular vehicles, but nobody will build chargers without vehicles on the road. Yes, tesla built a network, they did so with gov money.

This isn't a near term project. Claiming so is similar to saying we need nuclear, oh wait, it will take a decade to build it all, guess we shouldn't do it then. That doesn't change the need, or utility.

 

[luebri]

Yes, unfortunately it does become political when some posts are deleted and censored for discussing "politics" and others are not. The post that are deleted are usually on one side and the other side is allowed to post whatever they want without being deleted. That is the fact.

I dont disagree with you there.

 

[luebri]

The private market will not, and never will, solve all things. Pure open unfettered "free market" is how you get Amazon and Walmart driving out all local business. Should parks be private market? Ambulance services? Complete free market is not the ideal solution. And as I said previously, existing products can become so optimized that they drive out competing products that are not initially cost competitive.

EVs are chicken and the egg, you need the chargers for them to compete with regular vehicles, but nobody will build chargers without vehicles on the road. Yes, tesla built a network, they did so with gov money.

This isn't a near term project. Claiming so is similar to saying we need nuclear, oh wait, it will take a decade to build it all, guess we shouldn't do it then. That doesn't change the need, or utility.

Yep we disagree. Good conversation.

 

[Joneii]

For comparison (from State of Charge’s EV Charging website):

“During the first three quarters of 2024, Tesla deployed over 750 new stations and over 7,500 new stalls. That’s a strong number, but lower than a year ago when we saw the installation of over 900 stations and close to 8,700 stalls.”

Now granted, Tesla has been at this since 2012, so they have a good system in place, but even when they first started they had opened 15 stations in the first 10 months. In just over a year they had enabled travel along the west coast, the Northeast corridor between Boston and DC and had a transcontinental route.

Also, their stations are highly reliable. Just saying…

 

[Maineiac12]

For comparison (from State of Charge’s EV Charging website):

“During the first three quarters of 2024, Tesla deployed over 750 new stations and over 7,500 new stalls. That’s a strong number, but lower than a year ago when we saw the installation of over 900 stations and close to 8,700 stalls.”

Now granted, Tesla has been at this since 2012, so they have a good system in place, but even when they first started they had opened 15 stations in the first 10 months. In just over a year they had enabled travel along the west coast, the Northeast corridor between Boston and DC and had a transcontinental route.

Also, their stations are highly reliable. Just saying…

You’re not wrong… but Tesla isn’t your normal company. Their stock price isn’t tied to reality and based on speculation and future potential and their management structure is a lot more nimble.

Traditional OEMs have to answer to a different type of shareholder who aren’t as tolerant of spending lots of money now for a future return.

And the same thing goes for companies putting chargers into underserved areas between major metros. They’re going to be less able to justify to their investors due to the low ROI of installing those lower volume chargers which IMO are the most important to help alleviate range anxiety. This is the area that governments should focus their efforts IMO.

 

[Firn]

For comparison (from State of Charge’s EV Charging website):

“During the first three quarters of 2024, Tesla deployed over 750 new stations and over 7,500 new stalls. That’s a strong number, but lower than a year ago when we saw the installation of over 900 stations and close to 8,700 stalls.”

Now granted, Tesla has been at this since 2012, so they have a good system in place, but even when they first started they had opened 15 stations in the first 10 months. In just over a year they had enabled travel along the west coast, the Northeast corridor between Boston and DC and had a transcontinental route.

Also, their stations are highly reliable. Just saying…

Sure, Tesla is awesome at that stuff.

But I bring it up again; because you cannot do something quickly, does that mean you should not do it at all?


Do people think the money was all set aside in the first year and now it's getting moldy?

 

[evowner]

I'm not going to offer pros and cons on anything else, but as to whether climate change will ever be a factor for anyone, I'd suggest it's just a matter of time until most people wake up to it, if they haven't already. I've lived 35 years in Texas, and it's become noticeably hotter and drier during that time. It will take a while for folks who live in more northern states to get the same wake-up call, but it will come eventually. Let's hope it's not like driving a car off a cliff. You only hit the brakes when it's already too late...

It is hot here in Ohio too. The last 3 years have been the hottest on record. Ignore the obvious at your own peril.

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