Wave 1 Lightning invitation email thread [Update: Emails AFTER 5PM ET]

[vandy1981]

Correct. And to be fair many also do much worse. At the end of the day mostly it boils down to how you drive and the geography and weather in which you drive them.

Was posting that link to rebut @cts888's guess that the ER battery would only achieve 250 miles @65 mph under ideal conditions. It's all speculation at this point, but I would guess that Ford will use the same strategy for F150L EPA certification as they did for the MME. Which would mean that the 250 miles guess is overly pessimistic.

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[cts888]

Was posting that link to rebut @cts888's guess that the ER battery would only achieve 250 miles @65 mph under ideal conditions. It's all speculation at this point, but I would guess that Ford will use the same strategy for F150L EPA certification as they did for the MME. Which would mean that the 250 miles guess is overly pessimistic.

I mean I would love for it to get over 300 miles going 65mph but my opinion is that it won't.

1. It will be the least aerodynamic EV on the road. 2. Its extremely heavy. 3. The Rivian R1T (315 EPA) in real world range tests on highway is getting around 240-250 miles of range on 100% SOC. The Rivian is more aerodynamic there is no doubt, and these tests were in conserve mode (only 2 motors working). All of this and the battery pack is still bigger on the R1T (135kwh)..

To me its pretty obvious and people need to temper their expectations.

 

[vandy1981]

1. It will be the least aerodynamic EV on the road.
2. Its extremely heavy.
3. The Rivian R1T (315 EPA) in real world range tests on highway is getting around 240-250 miles of range on 100% SOC. The Rivian is more aerodynamic there is no doubt, and these tests were in conserve mode (only 2 motors working). All of this and the battery pack is still bigger on the R1T (135kwh).

1. I don't doubt that, but we don't know the actual coefficient of drag for the Lightning or whether it's worse than the R1T.
2. The Rivian is about 600 pounds heavier than the Lightning.
3. I haven't been able to find any real-world tests other than the Edmunds one that showed the R1Ts actual range exceeded the EPA range. Also see #1 and #2

No one but Ford knows the answers to these questions at this point, but it's fun to speculate!

 

[cts888]

1. I don't doubt that, but we don't know the actual coefficient of drag for the Lightning or whether it's worse than the R1T.
2. The Rivian is about 600 pounds heavier than the Lightning.
3. I haven't been able to find any real-world tests other than the Edmunds one that showed the R1Ts actual range exceeded the EPA range. Also see #1 and #2

No one but Ford knows the answers to these questions at this point, but it's fun to speculate!

Edmunds test is set up so that 60% is around town and 40% highway.. Who cares about around town?? Pretty dumb test in my opinion since long highway driving and charge speeds are what matters. Even then it barely made its EPA.

On the Rivian forums there was someone giving a detailed breakdown of highway range and it wasn't too pretty. All I am saying is that if the F150 has a better drag coefficient and overall efficiency than the R1T then that is some pretty incredible work by Ford.

 

[Snakebitten]

I'm not necessarily dissing Rivian, but I leave some room for Ford being better at this game. By a considerable margin, in fact.

Rivian is GOOD for the consumer. I love everything they represent. But they barely have an annual output of... What? 1000 total vehicles in all their history?
Ford will build more EV's this month. And very soon they will build more than that in a week.

I'm only saying all this to say it's possible that Ford can possibly out-engineer Rivian at this point in time.

 

[TexasGuy]

I'm not necessarily dissing Rivian, but I leave some room for Ford being better at this game. By a considerable margin, in fact.

....

I'm only saying all this to say it's possible that Ford can possibly out-engineer Rivian at this point in time.

You do realize that Ford is one of the two big investors in Rivian and they used to have an EV JV with them. From this, I would guess that a lot of the EV technology is the same or at least has the same roots.

As for aerodynamics, Rivian, being a ground up design, was designed to be as aerodynamic as possible. Note that it has (hidden) spoilers, several air flow enhancers around the wheel wells and a front end designed for aerodynamics. The Ford was constrained to a lot legacy of F150 styling. I would bet the Rivian's cd is better than Fords.

Lastly, as for weight, the Rivian "large" (the current smaller battery) is a little bigger than the Ford's ER battery. Likewise, the Rivian's "Large" (base) battery gives the vehicle a 314 EPA range. The "Max" (ER) battery is marketed to be 400 miles, but will probably get an EPA range of 410+.

As for my bias, I have 4 deposits out on trucks. I will decide based upon range, features and timing.

 

[cts888]

I'm not necessarily dissing Rivian, but I leave some room for Ford being better at this game. By a considerable margin, in fact.

Rivian is GOOD for the consumer. I love everything they represent. But they barely have an annual output of... What? 1000 total vehicles in all their history?
Ford will build more EV's this month. And very soon they will build more than that in a week.

I'm only saying all this to say it's possible that Ford can possibly out-engineer Rivian at this point in time.

Yeah that is a possibility, and Ford is a hell of a company. I guess the part that I am skeptical about is that the Lightning wasn't built from the ground up. So one would think that a Rivian would be far more dialled in on things like efficiency, charging, use of space etc. I hope I am wrong since I am going the lightning route, but if its disappointing I will be trading in for my 2023 Rivian order.

 

[Snakebitten]

It's that "Legacy F150" design that makes the Lightning FAR more appealing to me than the Rivian.
In fact, I had not really seriously considered an EV until Ford revealed that I wouldn't be required to embrace a StarTrek mobile to have an EV. The more F150 it is, the more appealing I find it.

I realize I'm a dinosaur about such things, but I've been wearing wranglers, cowboy boots, and a cowboy hat for better than half a century. And besides, I gotta stop at the feed store in whatever I drive. I might be able to do that and nobody even the wiser that I don't have a gas tank. ??

 

[TexasGuy]

It's that "Legacy F150" design that makes the Lightning FAR more appealing to me than the Rivian.

I couldn't agree more. The lack of tactile buttons that never move, that you can reach and feel w/out looking are important to me as well.

My comments were only intended to address the comparative aerodynamics.

Now, if only Ford made an EV F150 that goes 400 miles!

 

[Snakebitten]

Now, if only Ford made an EV F150 that goes 400 miles!

I gotta believe that every generation or refresh of the EV F150 will extend its prowess. This is just a starting point. Current technology and value equation balancing.

I love the idea that I will be able to climb out of my current F150 and into the Lightning and my muscle memory will hardly notice the difference. That's amazing to me that Ford chose to go that direction.

 

[techguydave]

Now, if only Ford made an EV F150 that goes 400 miles!

With Chevy coming out swinging with 400 mile options in a few years, I can't imagine Ford wouldn't push for that number as well going forward.

 

[shocker]

Ford says the L has 4% less aero drag than the gasser version. With a drag coefficient around .44, ER should be able to get 350 miles, 65 mph, 70F, sea level. I no longer care to drive for 5 hours straight anyway.

 

[techguydave]

I no longer care to drive for 5 hours straight anyway.

That's the part that always gets me. I'm shocked at how many people apparently drive more than 2 hours without a stretch, according to all the complaints about not being able to drive 600 miles in one shot.

 

[Dalton]

After not hearing anything from my dealer (even after I emailed and was told I would receive a call once Ford's order banks were open), I finally called them to see if I could get any type of feedback on where I was in their queue. They did tell me they had one Wave 1 order but said they were in the dark in terms of where people were in their list. They said they just went off of time of order placement though. I was a bit late to the game and ordered the morning after the reveal (so 5/20). Would be nice to know if I should expect to be in the later waves for MY22 or if I'm looking at a MY23 order.

 

[astricklin]

After not hearing anything from my dealer (even after I emailed and was told I would receive a call once Ford's order banks were open), I finally called them to see if I could get any type of feedback on where I was in their queue. They did tell me they had one Wave 1 order but said they were in the dark in terms of where people were in their list. They said they just went off of time of order placement though. I was a bit late to the game and ordered the morning after the reveal (so 5/20). Would be nice to know if I should expect to be in the later waves for MY22 or if I'm looking at a MY23 order.

They can see the entire list of reservations at their dealership, in order, they just have to look in the right place.

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