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White House releases plan to build nationwide network of 500,000 EV chargers

vandy1981

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You’re correct but when the power comes back on, ICE fuel up much faster, than EVs.
I have never had to wait in line for a charger during 4,000+ miles of EV road trips.

Even if that does happen, I can handle the inconvenience of having to wait for a charger once or twice a year if it means that I don't have to fill up the Ram at Costco every 10 days.

And, under the brownout/blackout scenario, wouldn't people just plug in at home when the power comes back on?
Ford F-150 Lightning White House releases plan to build nationwide network of 500,000 EV chargers 1640616790426
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EaglesPDX

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I don't think Texas built wind and solar with "no thought for cold weather".
Wind turbines had no heaters so were not able to provide power. Same with the natural gas plants when valves and equipment froze and shut them down.

But to the point here, even the TX worst case scenario is infrequent so no issues with the grid being ready for EV's.
 

EaglesPDX

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There is a misperception that we somehow need to replace gas stations with charging capacity.
We do pretty much as 40% of drivers will charge at public charging of some sort so cities will need high density public charging and everyone will need long range charging for travel. So maybe lose 50% of current gas stations and convert the rest to EV stations.

And for 100% EV conversion (2035 will be all EV sales) we do have to come up with 4,206,820,000,000 kWh of electricity capacity to replace the gasoline. Build out for that should be all roof top solar and battery backup as most cost effective and zero emissions.
 

PungoteagueDave

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How soon we forget about the long lines at the gas pumps during fuel shortages. Imagine the mess some will have when the power goes out, random blackouts/brown outs. Charging EV’s is going to be much much worse than people think. I don’t care how many charging stations they build. You go to bed at night expecting your EV to be charged up only to find out the power was off and you got no way to work. We have got a long way to go before we figure this out. I bet there will be many EVs traded in for ICE vehicles in the next 10 years. I’m still hoping for a Lightning Pro but I won’t part with my ICE F150 Power Boost Hybrid.
The single most ridiculous post I have read on this forum, and there have been some doozies. Predicting an apocalypse without evidence. Again, we don't need so many charging stations. We already have them - everyone with a home owns one. And you charge at NIGHT folks, when the grid is lightly taxed. Chill.
 

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PungoteagueDave

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We do pretty much as 40% of drivers will charge at public charging of some sort so cities will need high density public charging and everyone will need long range charging for travel. So maybe lose 50% of current gas stations and convert the rest to EV stations.

And for 100% EV conversion (2035 will be all EV sales) we do have to come up with 4,206,820,000,000 kWh of electricity capacity to replace the gasoline. Build out for that should be all roof top solar and battery backup as most cost effective and zero emissions.
Nope, not even close - at LEAST 90% of charging will be at home or work, not at public charging stations. At least 90%, probably 95%+. There simply are not that many folks in living situations without parking. It sucks for those with street parking, and for those, we need solutions, but it is small relative number. New apartments and condos are getting charging, and older multifamily properties are being retrofitted, fast. I say this as an investor with interests in over 1,000 convenience store/ gas station operations - they all seem to think EV charging is an answer - it simply is not - the idea that 50% of them can make it by through converting to charging is absurd. Almost everyone with an EV leaves home each morning with a full tank - but no one has a gasoline tank at home. Okay, I do have a 1,000 gallon underground tank and gas pump at my oyster farm, but that is a rare circumstance. Gas stations have a big issue coming.
 

vandy1981

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Gas stations have a big issue coming.
And gas companies aren't going to be paying for petroleum brownfield cleanup at their stations. It's going to be the taxpayer (assuming they don't sit on valuable real estate).
 

EaglesPDX

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90% of charging will be at home or work, not at public charging stations.
40% of US drivers are renters and 10% of owned homes are multifamily units without charging so a large population that does not have home charging.

New apartments and condos are getting charging, and older multifamily properties are being retrofitted, fast.
Actually more apts are going up with NO PARKING or very limited parking, most without EV charging. Our most modern apts and condos built along tram lines so can build with no/limited parking.

Retrofitting is expensive. While some enlightened employers have some charging, even in our EV tree hugger metro, only a few. We are building a new clinic and even though CEO, CFO, partners and employees have EV's from Porsche's to Tesla's to Kona's we can't get it past a sympathetic board on the financials.

And then there is travel when we all need it.

Tesla is probably the best guide to this. Roughly 10,000 chargers for 1M cars works well. When we go all EV, that would be 2,500,000 chargers. Currently 115,000 gas stations with 1,000,000 pumps.
 

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500,000 chargers, cool, that leaves 289 million looking to plug in
Ford F-150 Lightning White House releases plan to build nationwide network of 500,000 EV chargers Screen Shot 2021-12-27 at 6.44.13 PM
 

vandy1981

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500,000 chargers, cool, that leaves 289 million looking to plug in
Screen Shot 2021-12-27 at 6.44.13 PM.png
Because all 290 million drivers are all going to plug in at public chargers at the same time :LOL:

Madison, WI only has 35 public toilets for a population of 235,000. What happens when the other 234,965 need to go?
 

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Gas stations have a big issue coming.
Gas stations have had this issue coming for years. The number of stations has been declining for a very long time. And in spite of this reduction, it's still a very low margin business. None of them survive on gasoline sales.
 

ZOSICK

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I have no problem with EV's what so ever. I think they are great, have their place and work for some. I think they are good in the sense of not having to pay for gas but electricty goes up every year in my home or if I use more from month to month. What I do have a problem with is people thinking they are better for the environment when in theory they are not. If anything, they are worse and far less efficient. Then again, just dig a big hole and drop all of the useless batteries in there. mother nature don't care lol. That being said, you will never convince a person with an EV otherwise. I'm willing to bet, some of them think, the electricity is generated magically from the plug. To each their own, I guess. I would like to know the true cost of ownership for an EV. I have a friend who has a model X, and he's bitching about how much he has to pay just to drive the damn thing. Again, probably no different than a gas automobile. Yes, they do not pay for gas but they sure as hell pay a lot for electricity (overall). Again, I have nothing against them. I guess paying a lot more for gas is better than paying a lot for electricity? And using oil is worse than using coal and electricity. Let's not forget all of the diesel that is being used to mine the coal lol. Are EV's great for short commutes, yes, of course. Are they better for the environment? I would say they are much worse when you look at everything that is involved. Again, just my opinion. Personally, they would never work for me. I travel hundreds of miles on the weekends. No way I'm spending more of my time waiting to charge in order to get home. Again, just talking about myself. I'd love for there to be an option to own either. Why make people choose one or the other? Just my thoughts.
 

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Actually more apts are going up with NO PARKING or very limited parking, most without EV charging. Our most modern apts and condos built along tram lines so can build with no/limited parking.
People living in apartments without parking don't have cars, so don't need charging.
 

shutterbug

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I have a friend who has a model X, and he's bitching about how much he has to pay just to drive the damn thing.
The fuel cost for EV isn't even remotely comparable to high cost of gas. The average cost in US is $0.13. My TOU cost now fluctuates between $0.03 and $0.06 per kWh. But let's consider worst case scenario. Using EA charging at $0.31 per kWh. Assuming 3 miles per kWh and 30 mpg, thast works out to 1 gallon equivalent of around $3.00. Compare that to nearly $4.00 per gallon that people in Phoenix are paying today. And all this without considering opportunities to charge for free.
 

EaglesPDX

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People living in apartments without parking don't have cars
Actually they do. Even in apts with parking, it is not enough for everyone and local garages and lots rent them space. Lots of discussion here on the apts with no parking being built along the expanding Metro lines. It ends up impacting parking in the neighborhood so we've gone to area parking permits.
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