Lightning Reservation Holders Beware...

[greenne]

So what you are saying is that saving $5K to $10K off of MSRP is not worth an hour or so of Internet research to find a vehicle at a good price? That has typically been my savings on Fusions, Suburbans and Volvos.

My last vehicle I paid $10k under MSRP. Granted it was a GM product(actually it was a Buick TourX so it is an Opel)...but I spent maybe 3-4hrs total researching and emailing dealers. I knew more about the tourX than the salesperson-- I knew what they were selling for(on the market), I knew the invoice price, the MSRP, and even how long that vehicle had been sitting on his dealers lot.

Knowledge is power. Seriously...less than a day's work to save $10k....I'll take that to the bank...

ps-- dealers play games only if you let them play games. Now in a "supply crisis" mode all bets are off..but in normal life if a dealer plays games I walk..there will ALWAYS be another dealer who will play ball.

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[greenne]

one thing to also note is that MSRPs are inflated...there was a reason that every ad on TV pre-covid was offering few thousand off or % off.
If there was a realistic MSRP, savings thousands becomes a moot point. You don't hear anyone saying that Tesla's are overpriced. Tesla offers a price and people either take it or don't. No need to play shell games of over-inflated MSRP and then jumping through hoops to "save" $.

I think Teslas are overpriced...so there's that. I also don't appreciate the price of a Tesla changing every day because Elon got up on the wrong side of the bed.

You want to talk about games and you're bringing Tesla into the equation? LOL.

Tesla is a thing because they capitalized on EVs when no one else did and they are by far the best EV. However they car part of the equation is mediocre at best. Once everyone else starts developing a competent EV, Tesla will lose its luster.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

I think Teslas are overpriced...so there's that. I also don't appreciate the price of a Tesla changing every day because Elon got up on the wrong side of the bed.

People that buy a Tesla are essentially buying into Musk's everchanging mood and ego. The rules pre-purchase, post-purchase, and the life of your Tesla mean nothing since they constantly change them...and more often than not at the detriment of the consumer.

 

[greenne]

People that buy a Tesla are essentially buying into Musk's everchanging mood and ego. The rules pre-purchase, post-purchase, and the life of your Tesla mean nothing since they constantly change them...and more often than not at the detriment of the consumer.

Its a cult. Talk to a TESLA 'bro for 5min..all you'll get is ego and attitude. You couldn't pay me enough to own one....

 

[Blainestang]

We go to direct pricing..what happens? Everyone gets to pay MSRP. Great...that means for 99% of us we will be paying more for the vehicle. I mean do you REALLY think Ford(or anyone else) are going to lower the price if they start selling direct.

MSRPs clearly have negotiation built in... so yeah, MSRP would go down if everyone had to pay MSRP. Nowhere near 99% of people would have to pay more. The manufacturer is already setting an approximate floor for the price because they sell it to the dealer for a particular price. It might even be, on average, *cheaper* because there's no middle man.

Also, going to direct-to-consumer pricing doesn't eliminate competition. There's still plenty of competing companies that influence the pricing. Tesla can't just charge $100k for a regular Model 3 because people would buy something else.

 

[Blainestang]

I think Teslas are overpriced...so there's that. I also don't appreciate the price of a Tesla changing every day because Elon got up on the wrong side of the bed.

You want to talk about games and you're bringing Tesla into the equation? LOL.

Tesla is a thing because they capitalized on EVs when no one else did and they are by far the best EV. However they car part of the equation is mediocre at best. Once everyone else starts developing a competent EV, Tesla will lose its luster.

Dealers and manufacturers are frequently changing the pricing, too, it's just not always as transparent to the buyer that dealer incentives and cash back and college graduate and x-plan and and and are changing relatively frequently.

Both systems are frequently changing pricing based on supply, demand, etc.

 

[Blainestang]

So what you are saying is that saving $5K to $10K off of MSRP is not worth an hour or so of Internet research to find a vehicle at a good price? That has typically been my savings on Fusions, Suburbans and Volvos.

Manufacturers won't be able to keep the same obviously-inflated-for-negotiation MSRPs if they go to a direct sales model.

The price will have to be adjusted to a number that's nearer to the average *actual* sales price or they will lose lots of sales.

 

[GarageMahal]

With a direct to consumer model everyone would pay INVOICE price which would become MSRP.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

Its a cult. Talk to a TESLA 'bro for 5min..all you'll get is ego and attitude. You couldn't pay me enough to own one....

When there was literally no competition, they were great. Now everyone has multiple options for each comparable Tesla model.

I do wish the dealer-less model would become industry wide though. I'm sick of dealing with dealers, and a lot of the Ford Dealers are so uneducated it's frustrating.

 

[Blainestang]

With a direct to consumer model everyone would pay INVOICE price which would become MSRP.

Yeah, it would be much closer to invoice, perhaps plus some additional prep/delivery costs that the dealership provides, now, but it would be way less than the current monopoly money MSRPs.

 

[greenne]

When there was literally no competition, they were great. Now everyone has multiple options for each comparable Tesla model.

I do wish the dealer-less model would become industry wide though. I'm sick of dealing with dealers, and a lot of the Ford Dealers are so uneducated it's frustrating.

I will give credit where credit is due. Tesla makes a GREAT EV, the charging network was brilliant and they capitalized on the novelty of EVs when no one else would touch it with a 10ft pole.

However, once the novelty wears off and everyone has a comparable EV.. TESLA will always have their niche(aka cult) but people will discover better options for the money.

 

[greenne]

With a direct to consumer model everyone would pay INVOICE price which would become MSRP.

I don't believe this for one second....

 

[techguydave]

ps-- dealers play games only if you let them play games. Now in a "supply crisis" mode all bets are off..but in normal life if a dealer plays games I walk..there will ALWAYS be another dealer who will play ball.

The fact that where you buy the vehicle determines whether or not an arbitrary game is played is exactly why I think this model needs to go away.

I wouldn't be as mad if they were more transparent about everything, but they're not, so they can kick rocks.

 

[astricklin]

The last car I purchased the salesperson didn't even know it was a hybrid. Then before they're even done running my credit application some salesman comes over with a paper that has a payment quoted that's about 30% higher than it should be and when I start questioning, they hadn't even finished running my credit app and he had just made up an interest rate. Then I spent another 4 hours that evening at the dealership trying to negotiate a price and then take the vehicle for a 24 hour test drive.
When I returned to the dealership the next day to complete the transaction, I decided not to trade in my existing vehicle so they then tried to add $1000 to the price. I almost walked out. The only reason I put up with the bullshit is because they had the car I wanted in the color I wanted and at a significant discount because it was a prior year model. I spent around 8 hours at the dealership over two days and had at least 3 arguments with both the lower level salespeople and the sales manager because they kept trying to change the price on me.
This is why people hate the buying experience at dealerships. The haggling, the high pressure sales tactics, having to argue with someone who isn't listening to you and comes at you with inaccurate information or just flat out lies. If I hadn't been paying very close attention to everything they would have tried to charge me several thousand dollars more than the agreed upon price.
I never want to have to go through this process again but I know I'll have to unless I want to buy a Tesla or a Rivian.

 

[Pilot2022]

I think Teslas are overpriced...so there's that. I also don't appreciate the price of a Tesla changing every day because Elon got up on the wrong side of the bed.

You want to talk about games and you're bringing Tesla into the equation? LOL.

Tesla is a thing because they capitalized on EVs when no one else did and they are by far the best EV. However they car part of the equation is mediocre at best. Once everyone else starts developing a competent EV, Tesla will lose its luster.

you are missing the point...it is not what Elon feels like but that there is one price for the product that you can either choose to pay or not. Replace Tesla with Rivian or Apple or something else...

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