Uh, Oh... looks like the EV tax credits are hitting an obstacle

[MikePinkston]

Everyone gets free birth control, mandatory vasectomy’s and problems go away. PEOPLE are the freakin problem folks. Geezs

I agree 100%. If we looked for the root cause (and the white elephant in the room) of most of our problems, it would trace back to over population. Why it isn't being addressed with the urgency and importance it is, is beyond me.

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[MikePinkston]

Because supply and demand are not strong enough to get the job done. We need more incentive to speed up the process or our goose is cooked.

I don't know what the median or average income is for the members of this forum, but $40K is at the top of my range of what I can afford. Even the Pro model will be a tremendous upgrade for me and my '97 F-150. If you are well heeled, I'm happy for you. But me and quite a few like me, need some help or convincing to help the planet. No chargers around me is another issue. My next truck will probably be my last one and I hope it can be environmentally friendly.

 

[Pioneer74]

The difference now is that the planet is about to start cooking in it's own juices and we have to do something quick or hand our grandkids a world without much joy in it. We need an incentive to change our collective behavior.
IMHO

Then you agree that to get any government incentives you should have to trade in an ICE vehicle to be crushed. Otherwise it's just about "free" money.

 

[Snakebitten]

Agree... to make it concrete...what are the differentiators besides 4 door, 4 wd, larger screen?
Arent' a lot of creature comforts the same? Don't really care for them and can go aftermarket if I really want prostate massager....

The Lightning CAN'T be anything but a marvel of utility even in its "stripped" version. It's going to be all electric and everything that means when Ford says Lightning F150.
It's going to perform well, of course. It's going to have the front trunk. It's going to supply Onboard power like a rolling grid. It's going to have 4WD and 4 wheel independent suspension. And it's going to be very "modern" because it can't be less.

That's just my conceptual differentiation between the a $40k MSRP ICE VS Lightning.

Both are nice F150's, but the Lightning is absolutely as nice as the ICE for the dollar. In my opinion. Without $1.00 of subsidy.

 

[RidetheLightning]

Then you agree that to get any government incentives you should have to trade in an ICE vehicle to be crushed. Otherwise it's just about "free" money.

Crushing ICE vehicles that still work hurts the working poor and may not achieve the desired CO2 reduction goal. Someone who buys a new EV is most likely going to trade-in/sell an efficient ICE vehicle, hybrid, PHEV, or earlier EV. These vehicles can be sold to lower income people who will most likely be upgrading from an older, less efficient, more polluting vehicle. Now if you took these cars you would crush and made a program for lower income people to get a credit for crushing their old jalopy if the newer vehicle has less CO2 emissions, you've got something there. Less waste in producing newer cars as well and we would get the most polluting vehicles off the road.

 

[MikePinkston]

Then you agree that to get any government incentives you should have to trade in an ICE vehicle to be crushed. Otherwise it's just about "free" money.

I didn't see a question mark at the end of the sentence but yes. I think that is inline with trying to do right by the environment as long as the environmental value of the crushed vehicle is maximized that's a great step.

 

[Snakebitten]

If any entity intends to CRUSH my Powerboost when I trade it in, I will GIVE it to a family member first! Lol

Heck, I might keep it anyway because it's a marvel itself. I've been riding/driving pickup trucks since the late 50's and I wish I could just ONCE give my grandpa a ride in this thing to Tractor Supply or Harbour Freight. Both the truck and either of those 2 stores would have him thinking he was in a dream.

We live in remarkable times for the optimist.

 

[sotek2345]

I agree 100%. If we looked for the root cause (and the white elephant in the room) of most of our problems, it would trace back to over population. Why it isn't being addressed with the urgency and importance it is, is beyond me.

Two reasons population hasn't been a big focus lately.

1) global birth rates are dropping, as economic standards improve people tend to halve less babies. This is a Tually an issue in developed countries, including the US because...

2) our economic systems are based on constant growth which needs an ever increasing population. This is a part of the reason for the worker shortage right now. COVID didn't help, but the US has been cutting down on immigration for years and our birth rate has been dropping. If not for immigration, the US population would be in decline.

 

[MikePinkston]

Two reasons population hasn't been a big focus lately.

1) global birth rates are dropping, as economic standards improve people tend to halve less babies. This is a Tually an issue in developed countries, including the US because...

2) our economic systems are based on constant growth which needs an ever increasing population. This is a part of the reason for the worker shortage right now. COVID didn't help, but the US has been cutting down on immigration for years and our birth rate has been dropping. If not for immigration, the US population would be in decline.

Our economic system should be based on strength not growth.

"Ever seen an old giant?"- Billy Crystal

I know, wish in one hand and ....

 

[EaglesPDX]

I couldn’t believe it when I saw Biden wasting jet fuel to go to Ireland recently.

Why do people keep making this bogus argument? And then only apply to the “other guy”?

 

[EaglesPDX]

I don't know what the median or average income is for the members of this forum, but $40K is at the top of my range of what I can afford.

Which is true for 90% of working Americans. The $45k median income would buy a $25k new car per NerdWallet. For a $75k F150, $120k a year, top 10% in US. Way more $75k pickups out there than there are $120k earners.

If the max EV credit were to go through, the $15k credits, Fed and local, make the $40k F150 a $55k F150EV.

 

[EaglesPDX]

I wish I could just ONCE give my grandpa a ride in this thing to Tractor Supply or Harbour Freight.

You can Turo.com one and give him that ride.

 

[Snakebitten]

You can Turo.com one and give him that ride.

I'm a grandpa, so my grandpa didn't hang around long enough to see a Powerboost.
He'd be about 125 now. He was 99 when he took his last ride in a truck.

 

[EaglesPDX]

I'm a grandpa, so my grandpa didn't hang around long enough to see a Powerboost

Well pass it on to your grandkids and maybe they can give you a ride in an EV they rented off Turo.

Fair to say older boomers are the single largest EV buying demographic.

 

[TF1000]

So are EVs similar or cheaper than Ice vehicles or is only one trim level from one model from one manufacturer close in price? Honestly want to know. My only factual evidence is when my wife bought her Prius Prime which was more expensive than the non-PHEV version. That was apples to apples. I keep hearing one obstacle to EV adoption is cost (and range anxiety). Are they wrong?

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