White House releases plan to build nationwide network of 500,000 EV chargers

[EaglesPDX]

I What I do have a problem with is people thinking they are better for the environment when in theory they are not.

Sorry that's all totally bogus. Most of the bogosity has to do with fossil fuel lobby that puts out crazy numbers claiming to show battery production is dirtier than engine, transmission and synthetic oils production. And then they compound the lie by including electricity generation emissions but not oil extraction, refining etc.

EV's are cleaner from cradle to grave...and by a LOT.

Start here.

Yale Study.

UCC data compilation.

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[shutterbug]

Actually they do. Even in apts with parking, it is not enough for everyone and local garages and lots rent them space. Lots of discussion here on the apts with no parking being built along the expanding Metro lines. It ends up impacting parking in the neighborhood so we've gone to area parking permits.

BS!!! If they have parking then they can have charging. This is an imagined problem!!!

 

[Mr. Flibble]

Gas stations have had this issue coming for years. The number of stations has been declining for a very long time. And in spite of this reduction, it's still a very low margin business. None of them survive on gasoline sales.

I recently drove through some long stretches of highway in New Mexico. There are lots of collections of “towns” with multiple “auto repair” shops from the 1950s. Every single one of them is collapsing into the ground. There’s old completely unused and broken gas stations too.

Cars are more reliable, and go further on a gallon of gas than they once did. These places went out of business when the business changed.

EVs are going to do exactly the same thing like you just said.

People completely overlook what its like to charge at home, and wake up every day with about a 1/4 tank of gas ready to go. I don’t even look at gas prices anymore, I couldn’t tell you what they are.

 

[EaglesPDX]

If they have parking then they can have charging

But they don't and the build out is not cheap. Bottomline is roughly 50% of drivers will not have home charging. Many homes can't have home charging and some apartments do have it.

Again, look at facts on the ground. How many does Tesla have to keep the 1M Teslas on the road happy. 1 public fast DC charger for 100 EV's seems to be the ratio.

 

[Pilot2022]

We can do it with wind, solar, and improvements to the transmission grid. It’s happening right now. Fastest and cheapest way to build out our grid capacity and electrify everything. Not just cars but heating, cooking, industrial processes. Ten years and we’ll be there. Exciting times! We’re finally using our amazing brains and technology to build something real, rather than just a brand new “better” social media app.

agree with most except you will have to pry my indoor gas cooktop from my cold hands. Banning natural gas for residential use is plain stupid…

 

[bboy_72]

I have no problem with EV's what so ever. I think they are great, have their place and work for some. I think they are good in the sense of not having to pay for gas but electricty goes up every year in my home or if I use more from month to month. What I do have a problem with is people thinking they are better for the environment when in theory they are not. If anything, they are worse and far less efficient. Then again, just dig a big hole and drop all of the useless batteries in there. mother nature don't care lol. That being said, you will never convince a person with an EV otherwise. I'm willing to bet, some of them think, the electricity is generated magically from the plug. To each their own, I guess. I would like to know the true cost of ownership for an EV. I have a friend who has a model X, and he's bitching about how much he has to pay just to drive the damn thing. Again, probably no different than a gas automobile. Yes, they do not pay for gas but they sure as hell pay a lot for electricity (overall). Again, I have nothing against them. I guess paying a lot more for gas is better than paying a lot for electricity? And using oil is worse than using coal and electricity. Let's not forget all of the diesel that is being used to mine the coal lol. Are EV's great for short commutes, yes, of course. Are they better for the environment? I would say they are much worse when you look at everything that is involved. Again, just my opinion. Personally, they would never work for me. I travel hundreds of miles on the weekends. No way I'm spending more of my time waiting to charge in order to get home. Again, just talking about myself. I'd love for there to be an option to own either. Why make people choose one or the other? Just my thoughts.

I get my house energy via my power company from wind and solar - all grid-based, baby. Minimal carbon footprint.

 

[ZOSICK]

Sorry that's all totally bogus. Most of the bogosity has to do with fossil fuel lobby that puts out crazy numbers claiming to show battery production is dirtier than engine, transmission and synthetic oils production. And then they compound the lie by including electricity generation emissions but not oil extraction, refining etc.

EV's are cleaner from cradle to grave...and by a LOT.

Start here.

Yale Study.

UCC data compilation.

We can agree to disagree. I'm not saying that cars great. I just don't believe that EV's are "better/cleaner" You say EV's are cleaner and say they are not. Both parties will "stretch" the truth to fit their needs. The big supporters of EV's will think gas powered cars should be gone because they are bad for the planet. There is some truth to that, just like there is some truth that EV's won't save the planet all that much in the grand scheme of things. Having both is what should be happening and not trying to get rid of one in favor for the other. I think it's going to take a lot of innovation to get rid of gas-powered cars all together. Our entire country is ran with diesel trucks. Until there's a way to get an 18-Wheeler from FL to CA with an EV, it's a moot point. To be honest, it could be done but at what expense? The cost of goods is through the roof now, I can't imagine what things would cost is EV's were involved. Like I said, there's a place for both EV's and gas. For me, an EV would never work due to the limited range. Hell, my truck with a 26 gallon tank makes me stop twice to fill up. No way in hell I could go 500 miles towing a 5000 lb trailer with an EV. At least right now. I guess I'm not sold just yet. All that being said, I do see why some would choose to own one. To each their own.

 

[EaglesPDX]

...you will have to pry my indoor gas cooktop from my cold hands.

“Flames are at the heart of what makes cooking visceral and fun,” said Andrea Reusing, chef-owner of Lantern in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, and the restaurant at the Durham Hotel in Durham. She’s “attached to open flame in an emotional, almost biological way,” she added."

"Induction ranges have been available for decades, but have been slow to take off in the United States. The technology heats a pan up faster even than a gas flame, and can be tempered or shut off just as instantly. It uses a magnetic field to heat up the pan, so the pan itself becomes the heat element—meaning no wasted heat to turn a kitchen into an inferno. Induction ranges are thus more efficient than their gas rivals, requiring about 25 percent less energy to boil an equivalent amount of water."

Now can I run my wilderness induction camp stove off my F150 Lightning?

Or will I have to run down to the chargers at the ranger station first?

 

[ZOSICK]

The fuel cost for EV isn't even remotely comparable to high cost of gas. The average cost in US is $0.13. My TOU cost now fluctuates between $0.03 and $0.06 per kWh. But let's consider worst case scenario. Using EA charging at $0.31 per kWh. Assuming 3 miles per kWh and 30 mpg, thast works out to 1 gallon equivalent of around $3.00. Compare that to nearly $4.00 per gallon that people in Phoenix are paying today. And all this without considering opportunities to charge for free.

My friend was referring to the total cost of ownership. He said something like he was paying over $350 a month just for electric and then other Tesla fees on top of that. I really didn't get into it much. He was the one bitching about. I'm just relaying what was said to me. I spend a lot on gas but it's by choice. I'm fully aware of gas prices in Phoenix. I try to avoid getting gas there lol. I fill up in Tucson or S.V. Phoenix is nuts. Most of the reason is the taxes. I live about 3 hours south of phoenix and our gas is somehow 20-40 cents cheaper that yours lol. It wasn't always the case. Not sure how that works lol.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Until there's a way to get an 18-Wheeler from FL to CA with an EV, it's a moot point

TESLA SEMI: PEPSI CEO CONFIRMS DATE OF DELIVERY FOR 100-TRUCK ORDER

Nikola Receives Landmark Order of 2,500 Battery-Electric Waste Trucks from Republic Services

Pride Group Enterprises, a holding company with its main business being truck leasing, announced that it placed a reservation for 150 Tesla Semi electric trucks with the option to buy 500 trucks from Tesla:

Safe bet Ford has a date for the first F-MAX EV to roll out.

 

[shutterbug]

$350 a month just for electric

$350 a month for just electric would work out to about 8,000 miles a month.

and then other Tesla fees on top of that.

I'm not a Tesla fan, but what "other Tesla fees"???

Sounds like grade A BS. Either you are lying to us, or you friend lied to you.

 

[shutterbug]

Again, look at facts on the ground. How many does Tesla have to keep the 1M Teslas on the road happy. 1 public fast DC charger for 100 EV's seems to be the ratio.

For 1M or 500M Tesla, overwhelming majority don't need DCFC most of the time. Right now I'm in the middle of a road trip. It will probably be another year before I need DCFC after this trip. Until then I can charge at home or work (free) or one of multitude free L2 chargers, or a whole bunch or pay L2 chargers. Do not see a problem.

 

[beatle]

I'm not a Tesla fan, but what "other Tesla fees"???

Newer Teslas pay $10/mo for cell connectivity to enable traffic enabled navigation, music streaming, and a few other things. Legacy cars have this free:

https://www.tesla.com/support/connectivity

"FSD" is now available via subscription:

https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-subscriptions

Neither of these are exclusive to Tesla though. Many carmakers will charge fees for similar services. Some are even worse.

 

[bboy_72]

We can agree to disagree. I'm not saying that cars great. I just don't believe that EV's are "better/cleaner" You say EV's are cleaner and say they are not. Both parties will "stretch" the truth to fit their needs. The big supporters of EV's will think gas powered cars should be gone because they are bad for the planet. There is some truth to that, just like there is some truth that EV's won't save the planet all that much in the grand scheme of things. Having both is what should be happening and not trying to get rid of one in favor for the other. I think it's going to take a lot of innovation to get rid of gas-powered cars all together. Our entire country is ran with diesel trucks. Until there's a way to get an 18-Wheeler from FL to CA with an EV, it's a moot point. To be honest, it could be done but at what expense? The cost of goods is through the roof now, I can't imagine what things would cost is EV's were involved. Like I said, there's a place for both EV's and gas. For me, an EV would never work due to the limited range. Hell, my truck with a 26 gallon tank makes me stop twice to fill up. No way in hell I could go 500 miles towing a 5000 lb trailer with an EV. At least right now. I guess I'm not sold just yet. All that being said, I do see why some would choose to own one. To each their own.

The basic issue at play here is carbon emissions. Our planet is heating dangerously fast. It RAINED in Denver last week- minimal snow this year. It will be a disaster for our older selves, our kids and our grandkids.

 

[ZOSICK]

TESLA SEMI: PEPSI CEO CONFIRMS DATE OF DELIVERY FOR 100-TRUCK ORDER

Nikola Receives Landmark Order of 2,500 Battery-Electric Waste Trucks from Republic Services

Pride Group Enterprises, a holding company with its main business being truck leasing, announced that it placed a reservation for 150 Tesla Semi electric trucks with the option to buy 500 trucks from Tesla:

Safe bet Ford has a date for the first F-MAX EV to roll out.

I have no doubt the big 3 can't come up with something. To be completely honest, I think some of these companies are jumping "on board" with these EV's trucks because they want to make themselves look "green" per say. Yes, for a short distance, an EV truck may work for them, just like it would work for me. If you think an EV truck is going to haul 20,000 lbs or more for 8 straight hours on a single charge, you might know something none of us know. Of course, I'm speaking from a long-range type of scenario. However, I won't hold my breath. I'm not saying it can't be done but I think it's going to create a lot of issues that do not exist currently. The new Lighting is basically one giant battery. Can you imagine how many and how much the batteries are going to weigh on a flatbed trailer that's hauling a bunch of weight across the interstate?

Like I said, short range, 100 miles or less, sure, I think it's possible. I can't wait to see real world towing tests from actual Lightning owners. I'm willing to bet the towing will be 100 miles or less depending on weight before a recharge. for some, that may work just fine. For some of us that drive and tow a long distance, this truck will not work at all. Hell, I have to drive 30 miles just to get to the interstate lol. Now, I can see a hybrid 18-wheeler that could help save gas. However, that will open a big can of worms. I drive up to 800 miles a weekend and I can't keep track of how many broken down truckers I see. Add in additional "EV" issues and this country will come to a halt. Truckers keep this country moving and functioning and prices of goods to a reasonable price. I never have or will be against EV's. However, I don't want them "forced" on us who chose not to buy them. Let's not forget that Ford or GM, can't even keep us from having issues with non EV's cars/trucks. I understand that all vehicles will have issues and we all have to "accept it" but we shouldn't. A brand new car/truck at any price point should not have a lot of issues especially with robots doing most of the work. The issues are Ford, GM, ect push out new tech and we're all the testers. I'm willing to bet not much true real world testing is involved. Yes, they do endurance testing yadda-yadda and I live somewhat close to Ford's proving grounds in AZ. I see their and other manufactures testing vehicles on I8 all the time. Keep telling yourself that Ford or any brand will have the bugs "worked out" on these big EV trucks. More tech equates to more issues. Just my 3 cents lol.

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