Fleet sales manager at dealer says they expect 40% range reduction at 70 mph + , Is that possible?

[jb56]

Has anyone heard about the speed Ford used to calculate range estimates? I heard from a fleet/commercial sales manager ad a dealership that they expected range to be about 40% less at 70 mph due to the F150's lack of efficient aerodynamics.
According to a few articles, The 2018 Tesla Model S supposedly had about 450 miles of range at 40 MPH vs. about 350 at 70 MPH (compared to 375 and 300 for the model X) (In 2021, car and driver suggested the Tesla Model S could do 320 miles at 75 mph compared to Tesla's advertised range of 402)

So does anyone know what speed Ford would have used to come up with it's range estimates? Is it really possible that an Extended Range Lightning would only do 180 miles on a full charge if driving 75 MPH?

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[sotek2345]

Based on what Ford has done with the Mach-e, I would expect the Lightning to at least come close to range estimates at 65 to 70mph. (Note EVs do lose range at higher speeds and excel at lower speeds - opposite as compared to ICE vehicles)

 

[Sklith]

Based on what Ford has done with the Mach-e, I would expect the Lightning to at least come close to range estimates at 65 to 70mph. (Note EVs do lose range at higher speeds and excel at lower speeds - opposite as compared to ICE vehicles)

I agree. You'll have to exceed speeds of 80mph or have 10mph+ headwind to experience significant loss of range.

 

[jb56]

I agree. You'll have to exceed speeds of 80mph or have 10mph+ headwind to experience significant loss of range.

I hope you are right, but where do you come up with this? The example I shared was the Model S, which is much sleeker than an F150, and that lost 23% of its range at 70 MPH vs 40 MPH. So if Ford came up with 300 miles of range with an average speed of 40 MPH, then you would expect a pretty significant drop off when going 70. But, if Ford used 65 MPH to get the range estimates (and then called that conservative), then you would expect much more range at 40 MPH.

 

[Knickell]

Makes good sense. Most motors do loose efficiency VERY quickly as speeds rise.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

I hope you are right, but where do you come up with this? The example I shared was the Model S, which is much sleeker than an F150, and that lost 23% of its range at 70 MPH vs 40 MPH. So if Ford came up with 300 miles of range with an average speed of 40 MPH, then you would expect a pretty significant drop off when going 70. But, if Ford used 65 MPH to get the range estimates (and then called that conservative), then you would expect much more range at 40 MPH.

None of us know, only Ford does. I am however 100% sure they gave these range estimates based on realistic highway travel speeds, like 65-70ish. Can’t even begin to imagine the backlash and negative publicity they would have to face if you could only do 40 to get the rated range. They are smarter than that.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

So does anyone know what speed Ford would have used to come up with it's range estimates? Is it really possible that an Extended Range Lightning would only do 180 miles on a full charge if driving 75 MPH?

I would guess we get an accurate count once they start coming out. I don’t think a drop to 180 is likely, but it is more or less the profile of a brick, so we will have to see.

As others have commented, the funny thing about driving an EV is that your range guesstimate goes up when you go slow. That is, when I am stuck in a traffic jam in my EV, my car’s guessed range starts going up. When I get out on the highway, and I am above 65 MPH it goes down much more quickly than say, 55 MPH.

 

[Sklith]

I hope you are right, but where do you come up with this? The example I shared was the Model S, which is much sleeker than an F150, and that lost 23% of its range at 70 MPH vs 40 MPH. So if Ford came up with 300 miles of range with an average speed of 40 MPH, then you would expect a pretty significant drop off when going 70. But, if Ford used 65 MPH to get the range estimates (and then called that conservative), then you would expect much more range at 40 MPH.

Tesla's sin here is that they are very optimistic about their range estimates. I'm a Tesla owner myself, so I'm very aware of this. Ford hasn't been taking the same estimate strategies as Tesla so I think it's safe to assume driving at reasonable highway speeds will not negatively affect range.

Edit: To iterate further on the 40 MPH question, there's a difference between averaging that speed and holding it constantly. If the Tesla Model S was staying at a constant 40 MPH the whole time, it'd very likely drive the distance of +40% its rated range but if it had occasionally sped up to 80 MPH I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of loss in efficiency.

Do you have any links to the articles you mentioned earlier?

 

[SteveP150]

I'd bet the Teslas and the MachE are a fair bit better from an aerodynamics standpoint than a truck. So if they are losing that much at 70+, it seems not unreasonable to bet the Lightning will lose more. Don't know about 40% though.

 

[GolfR]

Based on how my mileage drops like a stone over 75 mph in my EB 3.5 a significant range reduction for higher speeds makes a lot of sense.

 

[Sklith]

For my Model 3 Performance in 70F-ish dry weather, holding 60 MPH keeps me in-line with the car's rated consumption.

 

[vandy1981]

So does anyone know what speed Ford would have used to come up with it's range estimates? Is it really possible that an Extended Range Lightning would only do 180 miles on a full charge if driving 75 MPH?

We don't Know. Ford has been conservative with their range estimates with the Mach-E and there's no reason to believe that they won't do the same with the F150L.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the musings of a dealer fleet manager unless they're besties with the core engineering team.

 

[EVTruckGuy]

Here is the window sticker for my MME. It is useful in illustrating that unlice ice vehicles, EVs are less efficient on the highway than in the city cruising around at moderate speeds.

The range Ford released for their vehicles are based on average driving. If you get 300 miles in the Lightning under average or ideal conditions... Do NOT expect to get 300 miles of highway driving. It will get FEWER miles on the highway.

That being said, this window sticker suggests the MME only loses about 13% efficiency on the highway. That is probably referring to a more modest speed of about 65 on the highway.

I just read that an ice engine is 40% less efficient at 85 mph than at 70 mph.

I can say from experience with My MME I get about 82% of predicted range driving at 72 mph. I will be happy if the Lightning comes close to that.

 

[tbinmd]

Here is the window sticker for my MME. It is useful in illustrating that unlice ice vehicles, EVs are less efficient on the highway than in the city cruising around at moderate speeds.

The range Ford released for their vehicles are based on average driving. If you get 300 miles in the Lightning under average or ideal conditions... Do NOT expect to get 300 miles of highway driving. It will get FEWER miles on the highway.

That being said, this window sticker suggests the MME only loses about 13% efficiency on the highway. That is probably referring to a more modest speed of about 65 on the highway.

I just read that an ice engine is 40% less efficient at 85 mph than at 70 mph.

I can say from experience with My MME I get about 82% of predicted range driving at 72 mph. I will be happy if the Lightning comes close to that.

The slower speeds help in the city, but so does the regen in stop/go city traffic.

 

[bboy_72]

Has anyone heard about the speed Ford used to calculate range estimates? I heard from a fleet/commercial sales manager ad a dealership that they expected range to be about 40% less at 70 mph due to the F150's lack of efficient aerodynamics.
According to a few articles, The 2018 Tesla Model S supposedly had about 450 miles of range at 40 MPH vs. about 350 at 70 MPH (compared to 375 and 300 for the model X) (In 2021, car and driver suggested the Tesla Model S could do 320 miles at 75 mph compared to Tesla's advertised range of 402)

So does anyone know what speed Ford would have used to come up with it's range estimates? Is it really possible that an Extended Range Lightning would only do 180 miles on a full charge if driving 75 MPH?

He’s probably trying to sell you a Powerboost.

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