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Selling Your Order or Plan to Sell Lightning?

Nick Gerteis

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o.k., so I had a conversation with a dealer not in my local area the other day - he's the owner - and he was quite nice to have such a long and detailed discussion.
He was convinced that since I had already been 'confirmed' with my LIGHTNING PRO order from my local dealer, who then decided to add on a 10% ADM of $4,552.00, I would not be able to 'change' to another dealer. He could only suggest that I take it up with Ford, escalating the fact that my original confirmed order had NOTHING for an ADM, yet added the ADM when I recently changed the COLOR of choice for the truck, from Agate Black Metallic to Iced Blue Silver. He also mentioned, though, that while I could tick my dealer off in the meantime by going over their head to Ford, I would be better off PAYING the increased overall cost, since it still represented such a good 'value' for such technology.
Well, also, he then mentioned that if I took delivery of the truck, but wanted to then 'sell' it, HE would be happy, as a Ford DEALER, to purchase it from me, at a NICE profit, since he thinks that with even all that cost on his end, he would STILL be able to flip it for a nice profit for the dealership, too.

Interesting. I'll take all this into consideration as I wait for the 'Scheduled for Production' checkmark and email to arrive, hopefully by the end of March, as I was one of the first orders in the system, and order the PRO with Max Tow, Tow Tech, and Pro Onboard 9.6kw....

IF, and that's a big if, the other dealer is serious about a 'flip' of my truck, he'd have to give me a REALLY good profit margin, since then I'd be OUT of a new truck, but it might be worth it IF Ford decides to release an all EV version of the MAVERICK - which I would love in a Platinum or Lariat edition....

-$100.002022 Ford F150 Lightning Reservation May 20 2021
-$500.002022 Ford F150 Lightning PRO Order Deposit Jan 6 2022
-$600.00
$39,974.00PRO Model(originally Agate Black Metallic)10844492
$1,070.009.6kw Pro Onboard 240v Power
$865.007,700lb Max Towing Package
$1,948.00Towing Technology Package
$1,695.00Destination/Delivery
$4,555.20Dealer ADM(as of color change on 2/2/22)
$50,107.20sale price
$3,307.08GA TAVT(6.6% sales fee)
$233.70GA TAG(including $213.70 EV fee)
$0.00minus trade in, if any
$54,247.98Balance due at delivery
$7,500.00with potential TAX CREDIT
$46,747.98potential total cost
$12,500.00with potential tax REFUND
$41,747.98potential total at delivery
Heck yeah, mEVerick will be awesome when it comes! Probably at least two years out from now though. But, it’ll be “free” for us when we trade in our gently used Lightnings.
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hturnerfamily

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I like the way you're 'thinkin! I certainly won't mind owning and driving and towing with my Lightning, but I honestly knew from the get-go that the crew cab F150 was way more truck than I 'need', with the Maverick being the best 'size' for my future needs... basically just a smaller, lighter super crew.
 

Ruination

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F-in hell, 54k for the pro. What a dick.

I kinda think I need an ICE still but I haven't had any luck talking the dealership into buying the truck from me.
 

Carminus

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<snip>


$4,555.20Dealer ADM(as of color change on 2/2/22)
I would never give a dealer $4555.20 ADM. I changed dealers because my orignal dealer (Meford Ford) wanted 3k. The new dealer (Holman ford maple shade NJ) was ADM free. Least in NJ BEV's are tax free otherwise it would be 6.9%.

I ended up with the Lariat with ER. If someone approched me with a 95-100k offer I wouldnt say no.
 

FordLightningMan

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I would never give a dealer $4555.20 ADM. I changed dealers because my orignal dealer (Meford Ford) wanted 3k. The new dealer (Holman ford maple shade NJ) was ADM free. Least in NJ BEV's are tax free otherwise it would be 6.9%.

I ended up with the Lariat with ER. If someone approched me with a 95-100k offer I wouldnt say no.
In NY, you get a $500 state rebate at the point of sale. Tax is 8.75%, or over $5k on a XLT SR.

When I hear about these other state incentives (i.e. - $4k in IL) and saving over $4k in taxes in NJ, I sure feel like I've transplanted in the wrong state (temporarily?!?).
 

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sotek2345

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In NY, you get a $500 state rebate at the point of sale. Tax is 8.75%, or over $5k on a XLT SR.

When I hear about these other state incentives (i.e. - $4k in IL) and saving over $4k in taxes in NJ, I sure feel like I've transplanted in the wrong state (temporarily?!?).
Yeah, I feel that NY pain. It is better than if you are under $40k MSRP (up to $2,500), but few vehicles fit that bill.
 

neririn

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I have 3 reservations, each about 15-20k apart. The idea was I figured I might not be able to order in the first couple model years without a reservation. I plan on ultimately owning two at any given point long term for my business. I figured would consider selling the first one I buy if I end up deciding there are features I did, or didn't need in ultimately the two I keep. Not scalping, it is just a new product and I wont exactly have many chances to test drive anything first. I will be shocked if that violates any policy. I would also expect to make money on the sale (even after any price concession due to lost tax credit). The Lightning will have to be a complete bust for the first trucks to NOT be worth more than you paid in the first 18-24 months. Presuming low miles and they are well taken care of of course.
 

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I am firmly in the other camp. More options is a great thing! You can pay for what you want and not for what you don't.

If the Lightning followed the Tesla model, you would only get to chooses between a standard range and ER Platinum.
I’m with you. I’m so over the 2-3 trim levels with set options that may or may not suit one’s needs, and that’s it...take it or leave it. Thankfully the a la cart approach is coming back with some brands. The automakers who don’t move to that (or aren’t capable of doing so) might be the ones playing catch up one day. Time will tell
 

rdr854

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I’m with you. I’m so over the 2-3 trim levels with set options that may or may not suit one’s needs, and that’s it...take it or leave it. Thankfully the a la cart approach is coming back with some brands. The automakers who don’t move to that (or aren’t capable of doing so) might be the ones playing catch up one day. Time will tell
I think you are going to find the opposite as time marches on. Several manufacturers limit options and packages to particular trim levels. Just look at Honda’s. Gone forever are the days where you had eight variants of a car. Yes, I do recognize that there is more flexibility with pickups, nut that flexibility does not seem to translate down to CUVs, SUVs, and cars.
 

jazzmanmonty

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To some of the comments about options, in today's world, many features that used to be options should just be standard and baked into the price. Especially all safety features and camera safety features. Many Ford and Lincoln cars have cameras on all sides (front collision warning, lane departure, backup) but will only unlock more prestigious safety features with trim or package upgrade. If the tech is there, and it'll improve Ford's safety record, just make it standard. Other things standard should be power seats, power mirrors, etc. Manufacturers fail to realize that it costs a lot to make/sort two or three different variations of the same product. If they just simplify to one good thing, they can cut costs and the price would be the same as the cheap crap. Now i'm just talking basic features that have been around for 30 years. All the new crap like massaging chairs, 3 moonroofs, go ahead and markup.

To all you flippers, there are too many variations of the lightning to say everyone should flip for $20k profit. The problem is you try to flip a pro for $20k profit, then there'll be the guy flipping the XLT for $10k profit and the buyer will probably go for the XLT, but then someone doesn't like their Lariat EV and flips it for 5k because he has a conscience, and now the XLT guy missed out. There are too many potential overlaps to make it easy to flip for a nice payday. If you are gonna flip, the safest (and riskiest) bet is a pimped out Platinum with all the bells and whistles and hope that rich guy comes knocking. Everything else will be a mess, especially in more populated areas.

Also don't forget while you're trying to sell, you're gonna have to pay insurance on it (full coverage if financing.) If you're not paying cash, your first year of payments is going to be pretty much all interest. Not to mention when you sell you're gonna have to pay Capital Gains on profit, so depending on your tax bracket, that can be a large chunk. And the way i understand it, you have to keep your EV til next year to get the tax credit, so you'd lose out on that as well. I say, if you're lucky enough to get one, just enjoy the damn thing. Make people jealous. See if you really like it. Not everything is about money.
 

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I think you are going to find the opposite as time marches on. Several manufacturers limit options and packages to particular trim levels. Just look at Honda’s. Gone forever are the days where you had eight variants of a car. Yes, I do recognize that there is more flexibility with pickups, nut that flexibility does not seem to translate down to CUVs, SUVs, and cars.
Time will tell I suppose. I believe Ford already announced that Covid taught them that they want to move more to a model where dealers can stock much less inventory and people can just order exactly what they want from the factory. I’ve had 3 Hondas and the thing that made me crazy was this package model. I could never get what I really wanted and I finally walked away from them. I also think technology probably now makes customization far easier than it was pre 1990 when it was pretty typical to pick and choose your options. But then again I don’t work in a factory so that’s pure spec on my part. Regardless I’m glad I can customize the truck to a much greater degree.
To some of the comments about options, in today's world, many features that used to be options should just be standard and baked into the price. Especially all safety features and camera safety features. Many Ford and Lincoln cars have cameras on all sides (front collision warning, lane departure, backup) but will only unlock more prestigious safety features with trim or package upgrade. If the tech is there, and it'll improve Ford's safety record, just make it standard. Other things standard should be power seats, power mirrors, etc. Manufacturers fail to realize that it costs a lot to make/sort two or three different variations of the same product. If they just simplify to one good thing, they can cut costs and the price would be the same as the cheap crap. Now i'm just talking basic features that have been around for 30 years. All the new crap like massaging chairs, 3 moonroofs, go ahead and markup.

To all you flippers, there are too many variations of the lightning to say everyone should flip for $20k profit. The problem is you try to flip a pro for $20k profit, then there'll be the guy flipping the XLT for $10k profit and the buyer will probably go for the XLT, but then someone doesn't like their Lariat EV and flips it for 5k because he has a conscience, and now the XLT guy missed out. There are too many potential overlaps to make it easy to flip for a nice payday. If you are gonna flip, the safest (and riskiest) bet is a pimped out Platinum with all the bells and whistles and hope that rich guy comes knocking. Everything else will be a mess, especially in more populated areas.

Also don't forget while you're trying to sell, you're gonna have to pay insurance on it (full coverage if financing.) If you're not paying cash, your first year of payments is going to be pretty much all interest. Not to mention when you sell you're gonna have to pay Capital Gains on profit, so depending on your tax bracket, that can be a large chunk. And the way i understand it, you have to keep your EV til next year to get the tax credit, so you'd lose out on that as well. I say, if you're lucky enough to get one, just enjoy the damn thing. Make people jealous. See if you really like it. Not everything is about money.
you’re right. Lots of stuff is simply baked in now (or eventually will be) which is great. Beyond that I just want a clean slate that I can add to on an a la crate basis. And to a large degree you can still do that with trucks. They obviously still have trim levels with certain buckets of options, but there’s much greater variety beyond that which I personally appreciate. But hey that’s just my opinion.
 

Ccarm6

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I think you are going to find the opposite as time marches on. Several manufacturers limit options and packages to particular trim levels. Just look at Honda’s. Gone forever are the days where you had eight variants of a car. Yes, I do recognize that there is more flexibility with pickups, nut that flexibility does not seem to translate down to CUVs, SUVs, and cars.
Have you guys seen the recent news articles on Ford’s interests on OTA subscription services? They are catching on to the revenue generated by recurring subscription income which Tesla has somewhat pioneered. Their end goal are one-model vehicles, with all the bells and whistles, that you have to pay monthly/yearly in order to unlock the features you want (heated seats? That’s $50/yr, BlueCruise? That’s $200/yr, etc etc until we’re all broke). I hope competitive capitalism squashes this idea like the bug that it is. Let me pay one time for a feature that doesn’t require any upkeep or support and quit milking money out of my damn wallet.
 

broncoaz

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Have you guys seen the recent news articles on Ford’s interests on OTA subscription services? They are catching on to the revenue generated by recurring subscription income which Tesla has somewhat pioneered. Their end goal are one-model vehicles, with all the bells and whistles, that you have to pay monthly/yearly in order to unlock the features you want (heated seats? That’s $50/yr, BlueCruise? That’s $200/yr, etc etc until we’re all broke). I hope competitive capitalism squashes this idea like the bug that it is. Let me pay one time for a feature that doesn’t require any upkeep or support and quit milking money out of my damn wallet.
If the subscription means those features are warrantied as long as they are paid for I might be interested in that model. I’m a guy who frequently passes on tech and options because I’m concerned about that stuff going tits up down the road.
 

Ccarm6

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If the subscription means those features are warrantied as long as they are paid for I might be interested in that model. I’m a guy who frequently passes on tech and options because I’m concerned about that stuff going tits up down the road.
These mega-companies are interested in subscription model because it results in huge recurring revenue with minimal overhead. I’ve got a 15 year old truck still driving around with pretty much every tech feature still intact (remote start, heated seats and wheel, etc). I don’t need to be charged yearly to have access to a function and reassure myself that the company will fix it in the pretty unlikely chance that something malfunctions. Warranty companies are in the business of making money, not insuring their products.
 

broncoaz

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These mega-companies are interested in subscription model because it results in huge recurring revenue with minimal overhead. I’ve got a 15 year old truck still driving around with pretty much every tech feature still intact (remote start, heated seats and wheel, etc). I don’t need to be charged yearly to have access to a function and reassure myself that the company will fix it in the pretty unlikely chance that something malfunctions. Warranty companies are in the business of making money, not insuring their products.
I’m familiar with the subscription model and that it’s all profit. Look at Microsoft 365 as the example, no chance of paying once and done like 10+ years ago. I drove Volkswagens long enough to be suspect of everything breaking at some point. If it weren’t for the MPG and performance characteristics of the TDI I would’ve moved away from VW much sooner. My last Touareg had a sunroof go bad just out of warranty, fortunately I got the dealership to goodwill it otherwise the repair was over $4K.
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