contractors will buy millions of Lightnings

[Sundancer330]

I am a contractor with a mid-size fleet. I have looked into EV for my business. The numbers do not work out for now. EV Ford Transit vans currently lack adequate range & are not competitively priced, with very limited availability. EV pickups are also pricey, but likely unattainable for the next few years, in any case. In my opinion, practical EV use for small to mid-size contractors is still a ways out.

I agree with you totally. We have a fleet of about 200 pickups in various sizes and EVs will not work for us due to the locations we work, there will be no charging available, Sure we could use our towable Cat gensets to charge but that's another step we dont need. Its more of a gimmick to say contractors will use these trucks on a job site for power, most cant afford a normal cheap version ICE truck let alone one of these. Time will tell how it plays out, we will wait for feedback from others in the industry.

Sponsored

 

[RickLightning]

30 years of engineering and designing power generarion plants. How is that for a source?

Not one, sorry.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

Not saying they wont. Not going to happen overnight or the next 5 years.

And someone has to pay for it.

Hard to believe someone is still peddling this nonsense. Debunked a thousand times. Ok I’ll make it 1001: nobody said, ever, that the entire fleet would switch to 100% EV overnight. It’ll obviously be a very gradual process over at least the next 20 years, with all new vehicles going all EV in ten years or so. 20+ years is more than enough time for us to build out the grid and luckily we’ll get rid of fossil fuels in the process. Yes, there will be upfront costs, but in the long run we’ll save big $. Sun and wind are free.

 

[Mtnman1]

Hard to believe someone is still peddling this nonsense. Debunked a thousand times. Ok I’ll make it 1001: nobody said, ever, that the entire fleet would switch to 100% EV overnight. It’ll obviously be a very gradual process over at least the next 20 years, with all new vehicles going all EV in ten years or so. 20+ years is more than enough time for us to build out the grid and luckily we’ll get rid of fossil fuels in the process. Yes, there will be upfront costs, but in the long run we’ll save big $. Sun and wind are free.

Peddling what? Debunking what? Nothing I wrote is untrue.

And you cannot run the grid on solar and wind. That is a fantasy.
The technology does not exist today. That is fact.

And 20 yrs is no where long enough to rebuild the grid. Not even close.

 

[Ruination]

Peddling what? Debunking what? Nothing I wrote is untrue.

And you cannot run the grid on solar and wind. That is a fantasy.
The technology does not exist today. That is fact.

And 20 yrs is no where long enough to rebuild the grid. Not even close.

Because obviously you need to rebuild from the ground up.

 

[Ruination]

Not saying they wont. Not going to happen overnight or the next 5 years.

And someone has to pay for it.

Like, say electric companies that would quadruple their profits?

 

[RickLightning]

Peddling what? Debunking what? Nothing I wrote is untrue.

And you cannot run the grid on solar and wind. That is a fantasy.
The technology does not exist today. That is fact.

And 20 yrs is no where long enough to rebuild the grid. Not even close.

Correct. Generation must come from new technology. Have you read Bill Gates' book, How To Avoid A Climate Disaster: The Solutions We Have and the Breakthroughs We Need? Regardless of anyone's opinion of him, he raises valid issues and simplifies things. In short, we're either going to make an enormous breakthrough, or we need to move to nuclear energy with new designs. He's invested in a company with a prototype design.

 

[F-150 Prius]

Read my other post. Has nothing to do with charge stations or when charging is done.

I think the solution starting now thru 2025 and from 2025 to beyond 2030 is three pronged:
1) existing "drop in" charging stations
2) demand from Ford, GM and all car makers to build the grid to support vehicles sales
3) third party solutions for solar-battery and wind-batter
4) public works to put solar on public buildings, schools, factories, etc.

ok, 4 prongs.

I think you're looking at the power gird today rather than 2025 and ignoring solutions already "drop off a truck" ready (used by Tesla and others to deploy charging pedestals.)
Where regions of the grid are aging or overtaxed, EV charging is a matter of finding where the charging stations can be located, not fixing the locations where EV charging is not practical.
I'm sure you understand that while 20 or 60 75kW pedestals would challenge any grid, between peak shaving and time shifting, static batteries can balance loads. And if 50 or 60 people all arrive to plug in at once, they're just plain not all getting 75kW.
Other companies in the solar-battery and wind-battery markets will be bidding to install their solutions to create local power production. From school buildings and government buildings to parking structures and public land, I think we can expect to see a lot of public works projects to spread out a lot of solar panels and batteries that will both serve the EV transition and offset the load from those buildings, relieving the grid load on peaker plants and absorbing power during troughs to allows coal plants to keep burning and leveling out pricing.
I imagine in many cases, the position of 250 to 350 kW pedestals will be limited to available capacity and not be ideally positioned for local demand.
Ford, GM and overseas carmakers are not going to be allowed to cry "but what about the grid?" and I don't seem them trying to argue they're not ready to go 100% BEV in the next 5 years. Any carmaker without a solid product line up of BEVs risks its demise.

 

[Mtnman1]

Because obviously you need to rebuild from the ground up.

The fast majority of fossil power plants are nearing end of life. Gotta replace them if you want your lights to work. And no, not gonna be wind or solar.

 

[Mtnman1]

I think the solution starting now thru 2025 and from 2025 to beyond 2030 is three pronged:
1) existing "drop in" charging stations
2) demand from Ford, GM and all car makers to build the grid to support vehicles sales
3) third party solutions for solar-battery and wind-batter
4) public works to put solar on public buildings, schools, factories, etc.

ok, 4 prongs.

I think you're looking at the power gird today rather than 2025 and ignoring solutions already "drop off a truck" ready (used by Tesla and others to deploy charging pedestals.)
Where regions of the grid are aging or overtaxed, EV charging is a matter of finding where the charging stations can be located, not fixing the locations where EV charging is not practical.
I'm sure you understand that while 20 or 60 75kW pedestals would challenge any grid, between peak shaving and time shifting, static batteries can balance loads. And if 50 or 60 people all arrive to plug in at once, they're just plain not all getting 75kW.
Other companies in the solar-battery and wind-battery markets will be bidding to install their solutions to create local power production. From school buildings and government buildings to parking structures and public land, I think we can expect to see a lot of public works projects to spread out a lot of solar panels and batteries that will both serve the EV transition and offset the load from those buildings, relieving the grid load on peaker plants and absorbing power during troughs to allows coal plants to keep burning and leveling out pricing.
I imagine in many cases, the position of 250 to 350 kW pedestals will be limited to available capacity and not be ideally positioned for local demand.
Ford, GM and overseas carmakers are not going to be allowed to cry "but what about the grid?" and I don't seem them trying to argue they're not ready to go 100% BEV in the next 5 years. Any carmaker without a solid product line up of BEVs risks its demise.

Hell, there is no industry standard plug right now. Not only do you need a charging station, you need to be sure it is comaptible with your vehicles plug type.

The main problem is there is no overall plan. Just a bunch of individuals trying to be first or make a quick buck.

I see all sides. While we are the market leader in fossil plants, we have big foot print in wind and solar.

And we have the most fast chargers in operation.

And the bulk of funds right now is allocated to replacing MW from old old plants being decommisioned. Not adding MW or improving grid. Ohio lost 5, maybe 6 power generating plants over the last 5 years or so. Perry Nuke plant was nearing EOL. That is a huge issues.

Perry was extended, which was huge. A new natural gas plant off I 77 in Guernsy county is sceduled to be commissioned late 22, early 23.

But this is trying to keep status quo. Not replacing old infastructure or expanding capacity.

This is the same issue most states are facing. Need to replace old plants that are at or beyond EOL.

 

[Snakebitten]

I'm old. Remember watching the moon landing. Seems like about the start of the technical revolution that has changed the world over and over and each time even quicker than the last.

Remember the first 540 megabyte hard drive. The whole OS, software programs, and data was easily stored on it. Now we have smart phones with more computational power than took the Apollo to the moon and back.

Point is, necessity and/or demand will change the world again.

Your 2021 F150 would be unimaginable science fiction just a few decades ago.

 

[F-150 Prius]

Hell, there is no industry standard plug right now. Not only do you need a charging station, you need to be sure it is comaptible with your vehicles plug type.

The main problem is there is no overall plan. Just a bunch of individuals trying to be first or make a quick buck.

I see all sides. While we are the market leader in fossil plants, we have big foot print in wind and solar.

And we have the most fast chargers in operation.

And the bulk of funds right now is allocated to replacing MW from old old plants being decommisioned. Not adding MW or improving grid. Ohio lost 5, maybe 6 power generating plants over the last 5 years or so. Perry Nuke plant was nearing EOL. That is a huge issues.

Perry was extended, which was huge. A new natural gas plant off I 77 in Guernsy county is sceduled to be commissioned late 22, early 23.

But this is trying to keep status quo. Not replacing old infastructure or expanding capacity.

This is the same issue most states are facing. Need to replace old plants that are at or beyond EOL.

CCS is the standard connector and works for V2L
Existing plans for commissioning old "burn stuff" power plants can go ahead … this is 5-10 plan to undo 100 years of mistakes.

 

[F-150 Prius]

I'm old. Remember watching the moon landing. Seems like about the start of the technical revolution that has changed the world over and over and each time even quicker than the last.

Remember the first 540 megabyte hard drive. The whole OS, software programs, and data was easily stored on it. Now we have smart phones with more computational power than took the Apollo to the moon and back.

Point is, necessity and/or demand will change the world again.

Your 2021 F150 would be unimaginable science fiction just a few decades ago.

True. An hour before the F-150 Hybrid was revealed, I would have thought it absurd to suggest the old Blue Oval was ready to change the whole pickup market with onboard power and a hybrid drive. I'd already been disappointed when RAM said "mild hybrid" but did nothing more than change the starter motor to belt drive.

 

[Mtnman1]

CCS is the standard connector and works for V2L
Existing plans for commissioning old "burn stuff" power plants can go ahead … this is 5-10 plan to undo 100 years of mistakes.

Cannot have grid without fossil fuels and/or nuke. Facts.

 

[Mtnman1]

I'm old. Remember watching the moon landing. Seems like about the start of the technical revolution that has changed the world over and over and each time even quicker than the last.

Remember the first 540 megabyte hard drive. The whole OS, software programs, and data was easily stored on it. Now we have smart phones with more computational power than took the Apollo to the moon and back.

Point is, necessity and/or demand will change the world again.

Your 2021 F150 would be unimaginable science fiction just a few decades ago.

Yup, but pc technology is simple compared to upgrading the country. And 1000's of megawatts. Vastly different technology

We will get there. But everyone on this forum will be long gone.

And not to get political, but government regs and controls are a innovation killer. They need to stop getting in the way of innovation.

Sponsored