Can I drive the truck using just the passcode?

[PungoteagueDave]

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/05/f...f-150-lightning-owners-until-later-this-year/

Sponsored

 

[JC12345]

I just checked my truck and FordPass app, see no PAAK option, also verified that software is supposedly up to date per the truck. It would be helpful to know your software update level.

Unfortunately I don’t have the truck for a few days but when I looked it didn’t have a version. Someone else said the version might not actually show until it receives its first powerup. So far it’s on whatever version it had when it left the factory. When I get the truck back I’ll try to look harder.

 

[GDN]

Unfortunately I don’t have the truck for a few days but when I looked it didn’t have a version. Someone else said the version might not actually show until it receives its first powerup. So far it’s on whatever version it had when it left the factory. When I get the truck back I’ll try to look harder.

Likely the only versions that matter will be those seen on the truck screen. It might even take looking at the individual modules using Forscan, which I know not many have nor mess with. Let us know when you get your truck back.

 

[Ffxdude]

I've got 3.1. 3.2 is showing as pending in my Ford pass app but hasn't hit the truck yet.

I set up paak last week and have used the phone only (no fob) and I also put in a passcode to use if I don't have my phone.

Having said all that, I had to reset my Ford pass this morning because my connected services were "pending activation." When I did that I had to re-activate my truck in the app, which meant that paak had to be reinitialized. In the process I was able to get paak back and working but I haven't had a pop up to put the passcode. Going to try and see if it works a little later.

 

[GDN]

For all of the versions navigate to Settings, General, About Sync.

 

[Slick68]

Wait, there's two kinds of phone as key. One allows you to start the truck using FordPass. I think we all have that. That version requires you to actually have the fob when you want to drive - it is used like on all Ford trucks with the pre-starting feature to precondition the cab, etc.

What Ford has separately promised as a feature is automatic recognition of your cell phone when you walk up, no other action required, and you can drive away without a fob. Ford has told at least some of us with early deliveries us that this feature is not yet ready but will be provided through OTA update. Do you have this version?

I got my truck on Friday. PAAK is 100% functional and I’m just using my iPhone to unlock, get in and drive away.

 

[FlasherZ]

I'm not offered the option to set it up, so looks like newer owners are lucky and we'll have to wait.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

I got my truck on Friday. PAAK is 100% functional and I’m just using my iPhone to unlock, get in and drive away.

Seems there’s a repeating pattern here. Ford has apparently still not figured out OTA updates.

I had a “Job One” PowerBoost King Ranch, built and delivered May 2021. It had BlueCruise as a paid option, promised for OTA delivery in Sept 2021 - literally a due bill item listed at delivery as “due to customer”. Early 2021 Job One trucks were the first to supposedly be BlueCruise-ready, with the software in development and to be delivered later in the year, with a September 2021 stated time frame (in writing and all over Fords advertising). In September Ford announced a delay in doing the BlueCruise OTA update/delivery, with a new target of December.

In December Ford announced further delay, until Spring, with a compensation program to provide a free BlueCruise subscription for three years. At that point a few tech whizzes on the main F150 board figured out that Ford had a real issue with updating so many firmware modules, so difficult and slow that it was near impossible, requiring nine separate downloads over a period of days, and roughly 29 hours of time, with a significant likelihood of failure at several steps.

In March 2022 Ford acknowledged the problem delivering the original BlueCruise option to Job One trucks and instructed dealers to accommodate customers (on request) to do the updates using a direct connection in their service departments, with support from Ford engineering. I took my truck into the Florida selling dealer in March. They had it for over a month, thought it was done, but while it looked like it had BlueCruise, it would not work hands-free on a May trip from Florida to Virginia. It went into my Virginia dealer for another two weeks in May, received more downloads, and they and Ford’s engineers thought it was done. That dealer is 100 miles from the nearest BlueCruise-mapped area, could not fully test it, so the next time I got to an area where it could function in full (hands-free), I tested the function, and still no dice. This was in June.

My Lightning was built on June 6 and delivered in Florida on July 23. I traded the May 2021 PowerBoost on it at the Florida dealer who sold me both trucks, and I told them that the BlueCruise function still did not work on the traded truck. The interesting thing is that BlueCruise was delivered fully-installed on all trucks (Project Two and later) beginning around September 2021. The bottom line is that those of us with early BlueCruise-capable deliveries were screwed. In my case, I owned the truck for 14 months and 12,500 miles, never received a $2k option that I had paid for, and which Ford had originally promised would be delivered within three months.

Some Project One trucks have gotten through the hurdles and do have operating BlueCruise today. Others of us never did succeed despite many hours and lost months of use. In my case, a Ford customer service rep actually suggested initiating a buyback in June, after giving me a “free” 4-year maintenance plan in May for my troubles. I knew that my Lightning was incoming so instead chose to go the trade-in route because the value equaled roughly the truck’s original purchase price, so no financial loss.

Now here we are with Ford’s most ballyhooed product in its entire history, its marquee flagship Lightning EV, again being delivered today with functionality (PAAK) that was promised on our trucks, but which trucks delivered earlier do not have.

An objective observer might say: “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, …”. My wife is just smiling at me… all men are chumps.

The old saw about never buying the first of any model may apply here, yet I keep doing it, trusting Ford, like Lucy kicking the football.

Here’s the relevant question: Has anyone received PAAK via OTA download? Anyone? Because there are a few thousand of us out here who are owed that function. Based on responses above, Ford is delivering PAAK on trucks from the factory. Like my ‘21 PowerBoost’s BlueCruise, are we again being orphaned?

Time to step up Ford. Your OTA game is beyond weak. I had four Teslas, and they constantly transformed themselves, got added functionality, reformatted interfaces, etc. Cars they delivered in 2012 are still receiving meaningful updates. And it wasn’t an event or something important to track - everyone in the fleet got the updates over a week or so on a rolling basis, so the only bitching was why someone got it a few days before someone else, not over whether you’d get it at all. Until trading my last Tesla, a 2019 Model X in on the Lightning (along with the ‘21 PowerBoost, combining our EV with our truck, and receiving a check at delivery), my Teslas received OTA updates every few weeks at most. Some were for long-promised features, some came far later than promised, but at least everyone was in the same boat. When you have some trucks that have features and others that don’t it is an indication that you have process issues. You, Ford, are a real company with way more resources than Tesla did when they first started delivering vehicles (I had #2,609), but at least with respect to OTA, they had it down from the get-go. You gotta start getting this right and NOW. You’ve had a full decade to watch them do it right, and now nearly two years of trying to do it yourself - time for heads to roll in Ford R&D - do this NOW.

When Tesla users mention that they hate something about an interface update, or request a new feature, Tesla listens, and fast, changes can be a matter of a couple days for really important stuff. Ford has to get on the stick with this because after only a couple months of Lightning deliveries, a lot of them to former or current Tesla owners, people are noticing. There are things that Ford can easily do to make life better for Lightning owners. PAAK is one small example.

An example of a change that Ford could make quickly and that Tesla would have made overnight, is giving charging stats automatically upon initiating a charging session, and keeping the status onscreen thereafter during charging unless dismissed by the user. The driver needs this information immediately upon initiating a charge in order to (a) confirm that it is charging correctly and at appropriate speed, and (b) that he/she will be able to proceed when the planner indicated prior to beginning the charge. Not only is this information not available, what is available requires about five inputs to pull up a charging screen with horribly insufficient data. Ford should be able to make this change almost overnight - the data resides in the truck and there is no new ground to plow here - pick any other EV manufacturer and emulate what they do, put a Ford logo on it and you are done, at least until you can come up with something better. This is basic stuff Ford, akin to a fuel gauge. We need to know kWh being input, real-time on both the truck’s screen(s) and the app. Now. Today. Immediately.

There’s a lot more that other EV manufacturers provide while charging, and we certainly appreciate your fancy graphics screens, but real-time charging data is a pretty important oversight.

Another reason that this is important is that the Blue Oval Network chargers mostly aren’t viewable on a real-time basis through the FordPass app, unlike the Tesla Supercharger network through its big screen map. For that reason most of us on road trips also use PlugShare to see recent reports/updates on what chargers really work and which don’t. Reliance on the truck’s trip planner or the app would send a driver to inoperable chargers on any extended trip, without question. Resolution of that issue may be beyond Ford’s control, but until it is handled, Ford needs to at least make the truck viewable on a real-time basis via FordPass. The Tesla app shows its real-time charging status and provides a lot of other current information, such as letting you “watch” your Tesla proceed down the road on a map, with mph, etc. (my wife is not a fan of that particular functionality).

We need to know, when walking around the beautiful adjacent Walmart, enjoying the crowds of pajama-clad trailer park denizens, that our vehicle is still charging, at what input rate, and how long to completion. We need alerts for charge interruptions (especially given that they happen with so much regularity at EA chargers, for no apparent reason), at specified times prior to completion, and at completion. Again, all functions that have existed on EV charging apps for a decade. Not sure how you missed it Ford, but again, a little market research, fast remedial action, and identification/reeducation of the R&D folks who failed is in order. Your franchise depends on it. You have first-mover advantage in the EV truck space with the Lightning, and a great product. Don’t screw this up.

So there it is, a question, a rant or two, and a couple constructive ideas, Monday on the Lightning forum is complete.

 

[GDN]

Seems there’s a repeating pattern here. Ford has apparently still not figured out OTA updates.

I had a “Job One” PowerBoost King Ranch, built and delivered May 2021. It had BlueCruise as a paid option, promised for OTA delivery in Sept 2021 - literally a due bill item listed at delivery as “due to customer”. Early 2021 Job One trucks were the first to supposedly be BlueCruise-ready, with the software in development and to be delivered later in the year, with a September 2021 stated time frame (in writing and all over Fords advertising). In September Ford announced a delay in doing the BlueCruise OTA update/delivery, with a new target of December.

In December Ford announced further delay, until Spring, with a compensation program to provide a free BlueCruise subscription for three years. At that point a few tech whizzes on the main F150 board figured out that Ford had a real issue with updating so many firmware modules, so difficult and slow that it was near impossible, requiring nine separate downloads over a period of days, and roughly 29 hours of time, with a significant likelihood of failure at several steps.

In March 2022 Ford acknowledged the problem delivering the original BlueCruise option to Job One trucks and instructed dealers to accommodate customers (on request) to do the updates using a direct connection in their service departments, with support from Ford engineering. I took my truck into the Florida selling dealer in March. They had it for over a month, thought it was done, but while it looked like it had BlueCruise, it would not work hands-free on a May trip from Florida to Virginia. It went into my Virginia dealer for another two weeks in May, received more downloads, and they and Ford’s engineers thought it was done. That dealer is 100 miles from the nearest BlueCruise-mapped area, could not fully test it, so the next time I got to an area where it could function in full (hands-free), I tested the function, and still no dice. This was in June.

My Lightning was built on June 6 and delivered in Florida on July 23. I traded the May 2021 PowerBoost on it at the Florida dealer who sold me both trucks, and I told them that the BlueCruise function still did not work on the traded truck. The interesting thing is that BlueCruise was delivered fully-installed on all trucks (Project Two and later) beginning around September 2021. The bottom line is that those of us with early BlueCruise-capable deliveries were screwed. In my case, I owned the truck for 14 months and 12,500 miles, never received a $2k option that I had paid for, and which Ford had originally promised would be delivered within three months.

Some Project One trucks have gotten through the hurdles and do have operating BlueCruise today. Others of us never did succeed despite many hours and lost months of use. In my case, a Ford rep actually suggested initiating a buyback in June, after giving me a “free” 4-year maintenance plan in May for my troubles. I knew that my Lightning was incoming so instead chose to go the trade-in route because the value equaled roughly the truck’s original purchase price, so no financial loss.

Now here we are with Ford’s most ballyhooed product in its entire history, its marquee flagship Lightning EV, again being delivered today with functionality (PAAK) that was promised on our trucks, but which trucks delivered earlier do not have.

An objective observer might say: “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, …”. My wife is just smiling at me… all men are chumps.

The old saw about never buying the first of any model may apply here, yet I keep doing it, trusting Ford, like Lucy kicking the football.

Here’s the relevant question: Has anyone received PAAK via OTA download? Anyone? Because there are a few thousand of us out here who are owed that function. Based on responses above, Ford is delivering PAAK on trucks from the factory. Like my ‘21 PowerBoost’s BlueCruise, are we again being orphaned?

Time to step up Ford. Your OTA game is beyond weak. I had four Teslas, and they constantly transformed themselves, got added functionality, reformatted interfaces, etc. Cars they delivered in 2012 are still receiving meaningful updates. And it wasn’t an event or something important to track - everyone in the fleet got the updates over a week or so on a rolling basis, so the only bitching was why someone got it a few days before someone else, not over whether you’d get it at all. Until trading my last Tesla, a 2019 Model X in on the Lightning (along with the ‘21 PowerBoost, combining our EV with our truck, and receiving a check at delivery), my Teslas received OTA updates every few weeks at most. Some were for long-promised features, some came far later than promised, but at least everyone was in the same boat. When you have some trucks that have features and others that don’t it is an indication that you have process issues. You, Ford, are a real company with way more resource than Tesla did when they first started delivering vehicles (I had #2,609), but at least with respect to OTA, they had it down from the get-go. You gotta start getting this right and NOW. You’ve had a full decade to watch them do it right, and now nearly two years of trying to do it yourself - time for heads to roll in Ford R&D - do this NOW.

When Tesla users mention that they hate something about an interface update, or request a new feature, Tesla listens, and fast, changes can be a matter of a couple days for really important stuff. Ford has to get on the stick with this because after only a couple months of Lightning deliveries, a lot of them to former or current Tesla owners, people are noticing. There are things that Ford can easily do to make life better for Lightning owners. PAAK is one small example.

An example of a change that Ford could make quickly and that Tesla would have made overnight, is giving charging stats automatically upon initiating a charging session, and keeping the status onscreen thereafter during charging unless dismissed by the user. The driver needs this information immediately upon initiating a charge in order to (a) confirm that it is charging correctly and at appropriate speed, and (b) that he/she will be able to proceed when the planner indicated prior to beginning the charge. Not only is this information not available, what is available requires about five inputs to pull up a charging screen with horribly insufficient data. Ford should be able to make this change almost overnight - the data resides in the truck and there is no new ground to plow here - pick any other EV manufacturer and emulate what they do, put a Ford logo on it and you are done, at least until you can come up with something better. This is basic stuff Ford, akin to a fuel gauge. We need to know kWh being input, real-time on both that truck’s screen and the app. Now. Today. Immediately. There’s a lot more that other EV manufacturers provide while charging, and we certainly appreciate your fancy graphics screens, but this is a pretty important oversight.

Another reason that this is important is that the Blue Oval Network chargers mostly aren’t viewable on a realtime basis through the FordPass app, unlike the Tesla Supercharger network through its app. Resolution of that issue may be beyond Ford’s control, but until it is handled, Ford needs to at least make the truck viewable on a real-time basis via FordPass. The Tesla app shows its real-time charging status and lets you “watch” your Tesla proceed down the road on a map with mph, etc. We need to know, when walking around the beautiful adjacent Walmart, enjoying the crowds of pajama-clad trailer park denizens, that our vehicle is still charging, at what input rate, and how long to completion. We need alerts for interruption, at specified times prior to completion, and at completion. Again, all functions that have existed on EV charging apps for a decade. Not sure how you missed it Ford, but gain, a little market research, fast remedial action, and identification/reeducation of the R&D folks who failed.

So there it is, a question, a rant or two, and a couple constructive ideas, Monday on the Lightning forum is complete.

You've nailed it, couldn't agree more. However we know by now that Farley isn't behind what he says. He has had this latest platform on the road for basically 2 years and updates are still abysmal.

The ICE 1.7.1 update nightmare and the slow roll out to MachE, now for the Lightning are starting to lead me to believe they just can't make it happen.

I'm stuck on 3.1.0 and learned yesterday I have the APIM downloaded and ready to install, but it won't. Tonight using Forscan I reset several modules, including the Gateway. A bit later when my app updated it told me I had an update waiting since August 8. So the truck knows it is there. It has now sent an update to the phone that is 21 days old, but if I go back to the truck now, there is no indication an update is available.

This is beyond embarrassing for Ford.

 

[cvalue13]

For those with PAAK working: was your truck delivered with one FOB, or two?

Article linked above says Ford would deliver two FOBs with vehicles not PAAK enabled, and only 1 for those enabled. Mine came with 2, mo PAAK enabled.

Meanwhile, where in FordPass should this feature appear once enabled?

 

[HJP]

For those with PAAK working: was your truck delivered with one FOB, or two?

Article linked above says Ford would deliver two FOBs with vehicles not PAAK enabled, and only 1 for those enabled. Mine came with 2, mo PAAK enabled.

Meanwhile, where in FordPass should this feature appear once enabled?

Got mine on the 21st. Came with 2 keys. When salesman wanted to help me set up PAAK told him would not work yet, he said OK. Got home and started messing with it and noticed full PAAK functions were active, added my phone and works fine with phone only. Once you have this setup with backup code you can leave key at home (with some caution, at times has taking me a few minutes on my Mach-E for the backup code to come up, most of the time immediate but have had issues that had me worried that I would be stuck with no key or phone - typically my lack of foresight to be without both).

 

[PungoteagueDave]

You've nailed it, couldn't agree more. However we know by now that Farley isn't behind what he says. He has had this latest platform on the road for basically 2 years and updates are still abysmal.

The ICE 1.7.1 update nightmare and the slow roll out to MachE, now for the Lightning are starting to lead me to believe they just can't make it happen.

I'm stuck on 1.3.1 and learned yesterday I have the APIM downloaded and ready to install, but it won't. Tonight using Forscan I reset several modules, including the Gateway. A bit later when my app updated it told me I had an update waiting since August 8. So the truck knows it is there. It has now sent an update to the phone that is 21 days old, but if I go back to the truck now, there is no indication an update is available.

This is beyond embarrassing for Ford.

I give Farley a little bit of a break here - not sure it was his responsibility to be this far into the weeds. Yes, the buck stops at the top, but unfortunately, it appears that Ford may have chosen a fundamentally weak OTA strategy/update engine and process, and how was he to know, and once known what do you do?

The Tesla OTA system is tightly integrated between the cars and the mother ship, with constant real-time communication between them being a core and fundamental part of the basic design, akin to Apple and its various apps and cloud. Tesla is constantly polling every vehicle, receiving and sending data, and knows everything about its status, including the details of which switch in the truck needs a firmware update, and has automated making that kind of stuff happen - without human involvement.

Ford’s OTA approach seems more akin to what occurs when a user runs a firmware update to a piece of equipment - it’s more of an unusual and significant event than a routine process - like there’s a macro somewhere on the truck reaching out and asking if there’s anything new - and fraught with error potential built into the download and update processing.

Put another way, Tesla corporate clearly maintained my Teslas and knew their status remotely all the time, took care of updating them, and did so seamlessly - no Tesla owner had to know anything except - oh look, my mirrors suddenly fold, or I now have dashcam functions that I didn’t have before (that one was amazing - never anticipated in the design, added due to a user request to Elon Musk over twitter - and now one the best features on every Tesla made since self-drive cameras were added about five years ago, delivered free and retroactively). My sense with Ford is that we need to be much more involved with and aware of updates - the truck is also reaching out to Ford and seeing if an update is ready, etc., with a lot more complexity and points of failure. The fact that there are all these modules, and that people are using Forscan to jump though hoops is proof of this. Tesla at some point figured out a way to send software images that do partial updates without writing over everything, some are big, others small, but always seamless. Always. Ford’s process seems closer to the punched cards that I used to feed into the hulking university Univac mainframe back in the 1970’s when taking COBOL and FORTRAN courses.

The likely sad truth is, that at least for the MME and our Lightnings, this is the horse Ford has chosen to ride, a technology that is what it is for as long as we own these vehicles. Put another way: One person’s idea of OTA may be very different from another’s. Ford appeared to approach this from a conventional event-oriented software update perspective, while Tesla threw out all the rule books, and its clean sheet, no BS approach, just works - due to operating system/fundamental software design choices back in 2010 that have served it well ever since.

Ford had to make equally critical calls in 2017/2018 when designing the MME interface and OS, and may have bolluxed the decisions, or was limited by its existing hardware strategies, and is now in a bad place given the installed base of hardware it has rolled on that basis. I hope they can make it work, do like my Lightning a lot, but after a month, conclude the software and resulting process and charging reliability elements are a huge step back from what I already had. BlueCruise is a joke compared to Tesla’s 2015 AP, much less its beta FSD (which I had on the MX). This is made more obvious by the clear superiority and consistency of the Tesla Supercharger network, but I would come to this conclusion even without that factor. The software design flaws just make the differences and benefits to Tesla’s OTA approach more obvious - I have zero confidence that in the next month Ford will give us charging information upon plugging in - and I KNOW that Tesla would add such functionality overnight if for some reason it were missing. I’m not a Tesla fanboi despite these comparisons, no longer own, and have huge issues with Elon and some of their design choices (had four sets of front half shafts on my Model X in 38k miles, a design flax affecting every MX made). The interface regression from Tesla to Ford is not quite like when I drive my ‘52 MG, which has no fuel gauge or heater, but it is seriously a generation or two behind Tesla’s OTA process and interface, which is mostly a decade old at this point.

Farley’s fault? Only if he does nothing to fix it quickly. Perhaps he should already be on notice given the BlueCruise rollout disaster, so no more grace is warranted, but I think the Lightning is so damn great aside from its software that Ford gets one more pass here to buck it up and get it right. However, given the massive ongoing volume ramp and the beginnings of naysaying that former reviewer fanbois are starting to vocalize, especially with respect to the increasingly obvious charging network issues, they haven’t much time. If there is anything that can be done to fix the core flaws, assuming I am incorrect that the issues may reside in deep-seated and fundamental decisions made years ago, Ford has a couple months, not another year.

 

[GDN]

I give Farley a little bit of a break here - not sure it was his responsibility to be this far into the weeds. Yes, the buck stops at the top, but unfortunately, it appears that Ford may have chosen a fundamentally weak OTA strategy/update engine and process, and how was he to know, and once known what do you do?

The Tesla OTA system is tightly integrated between the cars and the mother ship, with constant real-time communication between them being a core and fundamental part of the basic design, akin to Apple and its various apps and cloud. Tesla is constantly polling every vehicle, receiving and sending data, and knows everything about its status, including the details of which switch in the truck needs a firmware update, and has automated making that kind of stuff happen - without human involvement.

Ford’s OTA approach seems more akin to what occurs when a user runs a firmware update to a piece of equipment - it’s more of an unusual and significant event than a routine process - like there’s a macro somewhere on the truck reaching out and asking if there’s anything new - and fraught with error potential built into the download and update processing.

Put another way, Tesla corporate clearly maintained my Teslas and knew their status remotely all the times, took care of updating them, and did so seamlessly - no Tesla owner had to know anything except - oh look, my mirrors suddenly fold, or I now have dascam functions that I didn’t before. My sense with Ford is that I need to be much more involved, the truck is also reaching out to Ford and seeing if an update is ready, etc., with a lot more complexity and points of failure. The fact that there are all these modules, and that people are using Forscan to jump though hoops is proof of this - Tesla at some point figured out a way to send software images that did partial updates without writing over everything, some were big, others small, but always seamless. Always. Ford’s process seems closer to the punched cards that I used to feed into the hulking university Univac mainframe back in the 1970’s when taking COBOL and FORTRAN courses.

The likely sad truth is, that at least for the MME and our Lightnings, this is the horse Ford has chosen to ride, a technology that is what it is for as long as we own these vehicles. Put another way: One person’s idea of OTA may be very different from another’s. Ford appeared to approach this from a conventional event-oriented software update perspective, while Tesla threw out all the rule books, and its clean sheet, no BS approach, just works due to operating system/fundamental software design choices back in 2010 that have served it well.

Ford had to make equally critical calls in 2017/2018 when designing the MME interface and OS, and may have bolluxed the decisions, is now in a bad place given the installed base of hardware it has rolled on that basis. I hope they can make it work, do like my Lightning a lot, but after a month, conclude the software and resulting process and charging reliability elements are is a huge step back. This is made more obvious by the clear superiority and consistency of the Tesla Supercharger network, but I would come to this conclusion even without that factor. The software design flaws just make the differences and benefits to Tesla’s OTA approach more obvious. It’s not quite like driving my ‘52 MG, which has no fuel gauge or heater, but it is seriously a generation or two behind Tesla’s OTA process and interface, which is mostly a decade old at this point.

Farley’s fault? Only if he does nothing to fix it quickly. Perhaps he should already be on notice given the BlueCruise rollout disaster, so no more grace is warranted, but I think the Lightning is so damn great that Ford gets one more pass here to buck it up and get it right. However, given the volume ramp and the beginnings of naysaying that former reviewer fanbois are starting to vocalize, they haven’t much time, if there is anything that can be done to fix the core flaws, assuming I am correct that the issues may reside in decisions made years ago.

I've had 2 Tesla's in the garage, I know what a beautiful thing they have. I don't know the full details here, but my real guess with the problem is that Tesla has a couple of very powerful central computer systems and Ford has tens and tens of distributed poorly performing modules that each have processing power and communicate and must update.

For Tesla those main computers sit on either side of a board in a single compartment. They then have a controller for the left side of the car and one for the right. Everything else is pretty much sensor, switch, camera or light. So to do updates you send updates to 2 to 4 main systems. They are almost all backward compatible now for 10 years. The older cars are getting left out of a few things. However - every Tesla regardless of trim gets the same hardware and sensors. Simplicity!

With Ford you have the central Gateway that must communicate to these 30 to 50 modules and send udpates out to them. I'm guessing with the F150 alone you could have hundreds of different configurations on which modules are included for the thousands of options they sell and build. This has created a nightmare on which updates go where and how do they get distributed. It also seems there may just be quality problems, letting incorrect code modules get distributed that then tank the whole process.

In 4 years I never saw a Tesla screen lag or be slow. Many times in a month with the truck I've received messages that my input won't process until the previous operation completes.

We are on the same page, I don't know which throat to choke, but I will only note that at least Elon will listen, he will engage, and he will respond. Just ask Joe where Joe Mode came from, it was a beautiful thing.

For Ford that seat belongs to Farley, so if he isn't responsible for at least making changes then he needs to be replaced soon.

 

[PiMatrix]

I really hope Ford management is reading your comments. This so needs to be fixed asap. An EV is a computer that needs to be updated regularly with the customer informed on what has occurred. A webpage should be provided with tech details of what occurred. This will blossom into all types of problems down the road with Lightnings running on different versions, different features, etc. Many of these updates will be safety related, e..g Frunk hood. FCSP and need real time availability. There should be a whole Ford Power UP Software update department logging all updates real-time, reporting to management on them daily with high visibility, proactively reaching out the customer/dealers where it needs attention. Every software maker monitors this as a business metric and it is reported at stockholder meetings. I'm not liking what I'm hearing on this so far. Since you do not have early mover advantage on EVs you have to be better than the rest, fortunately there is no guessing on what works. Most people here have been driving EVs for years so have a point of reference on how updates should occur.

The present situation is not acceptable. Ford, Power Up!

 

[PungoteagueDave]

I've had 2 Tesla's in the garage, I know what a beautiful thing they have. I don't know the full details here, but my real guess with the problem is that Tesla has a couple of very powerful central computer systems and Ford has tens and tens of distributed poorly performing modules that each have processing power and communicate and must update.

For Tesla those main computers sit on either side of a board in a single compartment. They then have a controller for the left side of the car and one for the right. Everything else is pretty much sensor, switch, camera or light. So to do updates you send updates to 2 to 4 main systems. They are almost all backward compatible now for 10 years. The older cars are getting left out of a few things. However - every Tesla regardless of trim gets the same hardware and sensors. Simplicity!

With Ford you have the central Gateway that must communicate to these 30 to 50 modules and send udpates out to them. I'm guessing with the F150 alone you could have hundreds of different configurations on which modules are included for the thousands of options they sell and build. This has created a nightmare on which updates go where and how do they get distributed. It also seems there may just be quality problems, letting incorrect code modules get distributed that then tank the whole process.

In 4 years I never saw a Tesla screen lag or be slow. Many times in a month with the truck I've received messages that my input won't process until the previous operation completes.

We are on the same page, I don't know which throat to choke, but I will only note that at least Elon will listen, he will engage, and he will respond. Just ask Joe where Joe Mode came from, it was a beautiful thing.

For Ford that seat belongs to Farley, so if he isn't responsible for at least making changes then he needs to be replaced soon.

Well said. We agree. Very short leash. I sit on a few corporate boards, including one publicly traded NYSE company, know how tough it is to get things 100%, see a lot of forum carping about communication and details that show consumers generally don’t understand how hard everyone up and down the line is working to get it right. I do believe that for most companies, including, and maybe especially Ford, the consumer/customer and the product is always foremost - and I am nearly positive that Farley and most everyone at Ford in design, marketing and production wants to make the best products ever produced, really care about customer satisfaction before anything else, and are as frustrated as we are with issues, whether it is the screwed up reservation process, issues with a charging network that they are tied to but don’t fully control, or that fact that they are captaining an aircraft carrier. This comes with limitations - things you can do and things you can’t. You can’t generally water ski behind an aircraft carrier, or turn it around in its own length.

The difference with Elon is that he denies and defies all limitations, which is why his companies all accomplish so much, and why they have ridiculous turnover. He could NEVER run Ford, and Farley could never run SpaceX or Tesla, or if he tried, they’d lose their edge. Farley led the MME and Lightning roll, both mostly brilliant. He’s the kind of leader who is typically going to succeed at Ford, and if not him, who? Mary Barra? Please.

Everyone is chasing Tesla to some extent, and without Elon, it’s pretty clear we would not be having this golden age of automative reinvention, or products like the Lightning (yes, we have Elon Musk to thank for the Ford Lightning, which would not exist but for him), but we do still need CEOs from central casting to run the companies, because at some point Elon is going to blow himself up with the SEC or Putin, or some vixen who wanted his 30th baby but couldn’t stand rejection. He needs a lawyer, not just on call, but riding shotgun 24/7. The world’s a better place, but Holy Cow, we still need suit-CEOs too.

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