OCPP: is Ford Charge Station Pro OCPP capable/compliant?

[cvalue13]

As I noted earlier, the FCSP is based on Siemens Versicharge SG

Seimens technical rep that I reached said I had to talk to ford, and that fire would then contact Seimens

remember when people used to be helpful?

or is that a missremembrance

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[adoublee]

you’re right of course, but to review the present status of the conundrum in 3 parts:

• as noted above, one Ford Pro (ie Fleet) webpage disclosure doc says that for a truck charger to work with Ford’s “E-Telematics” it must be OCPP compliant, while on that same webpage is a link to separate Ford Pro (ie Fleet) document brochure advertising the residential FCSP as being compatible with Ford’s E-Telematics - so one might infer the FCSP therefore is OCPP compliant

• another spec document for the lower-cost/lower-spec’d 16A residential “connected wall box” (that I believe is best suited for example the SR trucks, etc.,), is clear that unit is OCPP compliant - so one might infer the FCSP, being a higher-end/spec’d unit should also be OCPP compliant

• another 19.2kWh “pro” charger available to fleet for depot (rather than residential) usage, the Ford Pro AC Charging Station 19.2kW” appears to have almost (entirely?) identical specs as the residential FCSP (though absent the HIS relevant hardware), and for that unit there exists a spec sheet confirming that it is OCPP compliant - so one might infer that seemingly hardware-identical FCSP unit would also retain this OCPP compliance

It may have OCPP but these inferences aren't a lock. The first one says that non-Ford chargers need to be OCPP if they are to work with their telematics - not that Ford hardware necessarily uses OCPP to communicate with their own telematics (no need to use an open protocol for systems from the same manufacturer). On the second - you may be correct but this product is not just a charger but a DC pass-through which might not make a difference but does put it in a bit of a different category. On the third - the Ford Pro group is completely independent of the group that put together the FCSP hardware, as in a brick firewall wall between the two.

 

[cvalue13]

It may have OCPP but these inferences aren't a lock. The first one says that non-Ford chargers need to be OCPP if they are to work with their telematics - not that Ford hardware necessarily uses OCPP to communicate with their own telematics (no need to use an open protocol for systems from the same manufacturer). On the second - you may be correct but this product is not just a charger but a DC pass-through which might not make a difference but does put it in a bit of a different category. On the third - the Ford Pro group is completely independent of the group that put together the FCSP hardware, as in a brick firewall wall between the two.

That it’s not a lock is definitely the point - and why I’ve spent 3+ hours on calls with people that have no clue

mat this point it’s 1/2 principle, and 1/2 about the rebate

quite an example of being early adopters

 

[adoublee]

That it’s not a lock is definitely the point - and why I’ve spent 3+ hours on calls with people that have no clue

mat this point it’s 1/2 principle, and 1/2 about the rebate

quite an example of being early adopters

Do you know if your utility has an OCPP network provider established, since they might be able to speak to whether they have been able to add the FCSP to their network? Or, anyone have an FCSP installed that could determine if they can load in an OCPP provider address to get it serving data? Just offering more rabbit holes for you to spend your hours going down

 

[cvalue13]

Do you know if your utility has an OCPP network provider established, since they might be able to speak to whether they have been able to add the FCSP to their network? Or, anyone have an FCSP installed that could determine if they can load in an OCPP provider address to get it serving data? Just offering more rabbit holes for you to spend your hours going down

i appreciate the rabbit hole generator!

I’ll try and ask the utility; however, from my communications to date I got the distinct feeling they are requiring this OCPP compatibility for potential future connectivity plans/ideas they might have.

Quietly, I have a tentative backup to provide the utility the other 19.2kw “pro” charger - afterall, if Ford representatives themselves can’t keep straight or understand the differences between these models….

 

[jefro]

Until it gets on AE list, I kinda doubt it will get the extra $400 or so.
According to Versacharge they are all ocpp by design. Some chip in that is the rx/tx device Doubt they make too many brands. Guess you could put wireshark on and look for ocpp version string. I'd continue with Siemens tech support. Someone knows.

When I talked to AE they wanted the right to limit charge current under some conditions like demand ac or how water heaters do. I asked PEC if they had the ability to limit mine and they never replied. That control is supposed to be on smart grid in most areas. Part of the spec you need is that limit ability as well as monitor loads.

 

[cvalue13]

Until it gets on AE list, I kinda doubt it will get the extra $400 or so.
According to Versacharge they are all ocpp by design. Some chip in that is the rx/tx device Doubt they make too many brands. Guess you could put wireshare on and look for ocpp version string. I'd continue with Siemens tech support. Someone knows.

When I talked to AE they wanted the right to limit charge current under some conditions like demand ac or how water heaters do. I asked PEC if they had the ability to limit mine and they never replied. That control is supposed to be on smart grid in most areas. Part of the spec you need is that limit ability as well as monitor loads.

to qualify they need only a spec sheet from the manufacturer showing compliance. As a separate matter, I suspect someone then takes note and adds it to their on running list. But it’s not that it works the other way around, that you need to have one on the list to qualify. So if the Ford charger is indeed compliant, and anybody could provide me an official looking spec sheet saying as much, I would submit that with my application and it’s excepted I’d expect the Ford charger to show up on that list thereafter.

Given the difficulties in determining whether it’s compliant, however, I am now strongly considering selling my charger and instead purchasing one that is clearly compliant. Not only would an alternative be cheaper in the first place, but it would then easily qualify for an extra $400 in rebate.

 

[jefro]

I wish you luck. AE gives so much away for free you ought to get the most you can.
All I know is when it rains the power goes off.
[email protected] ??

 

[cvalue13]

[email protected] ??

this is the Fleet department I spoke with several times a few days ago. I need to try and re-reach the same woman again, because as unfruitful as it was it was as fruitful as it’s gotten

 

[cvalue13]

Called the general @Ford Motor Company support line for residential charging. Asked the relevant and seemingly simple “is the FCSP compatible with OCPP” and after some stammering eventually was told I would need to speak to SunRun.

While the prospect of having to ever speak with SunRun again was stomach-turning, I figured for this limited purpose perhaps it was worth the risk.

I couldn’t have been more wrong.

Here’s a play-by-play (in brief) of how that went:

• Ford customer support referred me to call SunRun

• SunRun Rep #1: I called customer service, asked the question “I need to speak with technical support for the Ford Charge Station Pro, specifically whether it is OCPP compatible” and after the requisite stammering was told I would be forwarded to the “Ford Team” in technical support

• placed on a 14 minute hold

•SunRun Rep #2: was greeted by a new voice, asked “the question,” received the stammering, and was told I’d need to be forwarded to the “Ford Team” in technical support (wasn’t that who I was speaking with?)

• placed on 8 minute hold

• SunRun Rep #3: greeted by a new voice, asked “the question,” received the stammering, told I’d need to speak to the “Ford customer support team”

• placed on 10 minute hold

• SunRun Rep #4: greeted by a new voice, asked question, stammering - at which point I asked: “does SunRun have anyone in the company that provides technical support and who can answer technical questions about the FCSP” the answer was “the only department I could think of is the department that just sent you to me,” at which point I ask to speak to a manager

• placed on 7 minute hold

• SunRun Rep #2 - AGAIN; that’s right, this time I was greeted by a familiar voice; I told this person that since I spoke to them last I’d spoken to two additional people, bringing my total to 4 people (him twice), and that I would like to know if anyone at SunRun can answer technical questions about the FCSP; they responded “I don’t know why they do this, hold please”

• placed on 2 minute hold

• FORD CUSTOMER SERVICE: that’s right-right, having begun with Ford telling me I needed to speak with SunRun, the 4th SunRun rep (second go-round) unceremoniously passed me back to Ford

@Ford Motor Company this is absurd. A relatively savvy customer is trying to have answered what should be a relatively basic technical question. I’ve spoken to 3-6 different Ford people in various purported “customer service” positions across both Ford fleet and retail, none of whom can respond to even the most basic technical question about the Ford Charge Station Pro.

Your partner Seimens refers me to Ford.

Your partner SunRun refers me to Ford.

Your people refer me to SunRun.

PULL. IT. TOGETHER.

Today was another 42 minutes, on top of the several prior hours, I’ll never get back

 

[adoublee]

Called the general @Ford Motor Company support line for residential charging. Asked the relevant and seemingly simple “is the FCSP compatible with OCPP” and after some stammering eventually was told I would need to speak to SunRun.

While the prospect of having to ever speak with SunRun again was stomach-turning, I figured for this limited purpose perhaps it was worth the risk.

I couldn’t have been more wrong.

Here’s a play-by-play (in brief) of how that went:

• Ford customer support referred me to call SunRun

• SunRun Rep #1: I called customer service, asked the question “I need to speak with technical support for the Ford Charge Station Pro, specifically whether it is OCPP compatible” and after the requisite stammering was told I would be forwarded to the “Ford Team” in technical support

• placed on a 14 minute hold

•SunRun Rep #2: was greeted by a new voice, asked “the question,” received the stammering, and was told I’d need to be forwarded to the “Ford Team” in technical support (wasn’t that who I was speaking with?)

• placed on 8 minute hold

• SunRun Rep #3: greeted by a new voice, asked “the question,” received the stammering, told I’d need to speak to the “Ford customer support team”

• placed on 10 minute hold

• SunRun Rep #4: greeted by a new voice, asked question, stammering - at which point I asked: “does SunRun have anyone in the company that provides technical support and who can answer technical questions about the FCSP” the answer was “the only department I could think of is the department that just sent you to me,” at which point I ask to speak to a manager

• placed on 7 minute hold

• SunRun Rep #2 - AGAIN; that’s right, this time I was greeted by a familiar voice; I told this person that since I spoke to them last I’d spoken to two additional people, bringing my total to 4 people (him twice), and that I would like to know if anyone at SunRun can answer technical questions about the FCSP; they responded “I don’t know why they do this, hold please”

• placed on 2 minute hold

• FORD CUSTOMER SERVICE: that’s right-right, having begun with Ford telling me I needed to speak with SunRun, the 4th SunRun rep (second go-round) unceremoniously passed me back to Ford

@Ford Motor Company this is absurd. A relatively savvy customer is trying to have answered what should be a relatively basic technical question. I’ve spoken to 3-6 different Ford people in various purported “customer service” positions across both Ford fleet and retail, none of whom can respond to even the most basic technical question about the Ford Charge Station Pro.

Your partner Seimens refers me to Ford.

Your partner SunRun refers me to Ford.

Your people refer me to SunRun.

PULL. IT. TOGETHER.

Today was another 42 minutes, on top of the several prior hours, I’ll never get back

You are doing good work but the writing is on the wall. If even one of the Sunrun goofballs says, oh ya it got that OCPP thingy built in, would you believe their word? Would it be sufficient for your utility rebate? Unfortunately I think you have seen all the documentation that these people have access to and therefore what you want probably doesn't exist even if the OCPP hardware is built in. But I guess you could lobby for @tommolog to dig into it since he has done one or two videos on the FCSP and has a Lightning.

 

[jefro]

Awesome work I agree.

Seems simple. Either V1.6 or newer.

You'd think there is some geek at Ford that created the software that runs all of these metrics they are trying to sell. He'd know for sure if you can find his cave.

 

[cvalue13]

Would it be sufficient for your utility rebate? Unfortunately I think you have seen all the documentation that these people have access to and therefore what you want probably doesn't exist even if the OCPP hardware is built in.

I share basically all your skepticisms, except that if it is OCPP compatibility I do expect there to be a technical document reflecting that.

Indeed, the puzzling thing about the FCSP documentation is that there appears so far to be no technical manual whatsoever, or even anything approximating an “owner’s manual.”

There is the “installation guide” that comes in the box, which as advertised is geared towards mere installation how-to (it also appears from a document design perspective to be put together by college kid).

Then there are the few various pamplet-like docs out there, in various flavors, such as here, here, here,

Compare any of the above wrt the FCSP to instead this true “owner’s manual” for the Ford Connected Charge Station 48A, or this one for the 16A/32A version, which are both owners manual with the sort of document one might expect to find for any such piece of equipment.

Perhaps, rather than asking Ford, SunRun, -and Seimens if the FCSP is OCPP compliant, I should instead just be asking for damn owner’s manual in the first place!

 

[adoublee]

I share basically all your skepticisms, except that if it is OCPP compatibility I do expect there to be a technical document reflecting that.

Indeed, the puzzling thing about the FCSP documentation is that there appears so far to be no technical manual whatsoever, or even anything approximating an “owner’s manual.”

There is the “installation guide” that comes in the box, which as advertised is geared towards mere installation how-to (it also appears from a document design perspective to be put together by college kid).

Then there are the few various pamplet-like docs out there, in various flavors, such as here, here, here,

Compare any of the above wrt the FCSP to instead this true “owner’s manual” for the Ford Connected Charge Station 48A, or this one for the 16A/32A version, which are both owners manual with the sort of document one might expect to find for any such piece of equipment.

Perhaps, rather than asking Ford, SunRun, -and Seimens if the FCSP is OCPP compliant, I should instead just be asking for damn owner’s manual in the first place!

Well I have one in a box so just pulled that out. Good news is that it has a Technical data page with full technical detail one would expect to be part of a real specification sheet. Bad news is no OCPP reference. Has the following under Communication heading:

Interfaces: Wi-Fi, Bluetooth
Configuration: via Charge Station Pro Configuration App
Software Upgrade: over the air (OTA)

 

[jefro]

I've been trying to find out what chips run the communication for the OCPP.
Can't be that hard to find....

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