Recourse for Additional Dealer Markup (ADM) added AFTER ORDERING AT MSRP?

[dirtdiver]

It kind of puts you in a pickle. Wait a year and the prices go up. Also probs lose the tax advantage. On the other hand they use bait and switch on telling you no markup so that you go with them. Now you are locked into them with no recourse and they stick you for another $5K.

It is a pisser and it is a break of trust. Might be worth it though.

steve

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[chrislittle]

This is a great thread and the comments are super helpful. With this back at the top of my feed I had a question. When is the latest we can move an order to a new dealer? I am pondering heading to my dealer 1 more time to get ADM formally documented as my Pro isn't built yet. is that possible to do up until build time? or am I too late?

 

[vandy1981]

This is a great thread and the comments are super helpful. With this back at the top of my feed I had a question. When is the latest we can move an order to a new dealer? I am pondering heading to my dealer 1 more time to get ADM formally documented as my Pro isn't built yet. is that possible to do up until build time? or am I too late?

You can switch dealers anytime before you place your order.

 

[chrislittle]

You can switch dealers anytime before you place your order.

Thanks @vandy1981 . sounds like I'm locked & loaded at this point.

 

[MM in SouthTX]

@MM in SouthTX I may have missed it, but what part of South TX are you in?

Corpus Christi

 

[MM in SouthTX]

A couple of threads have addressed this, but I wanted to see whether we could come together here and work on a solution, for Texas specifically, but for others as well.

My experience:

I was called up in Wave 7 by a dealer (autonation Corpus Christi) and offered a to place an order. I had some discussion about ADM prior to this call with this dealer. The sales manager told me it would depend on market conditions. So, when I went to order, the order page showed no ADM. I placed the order on my end, then called the dealer. The dealer accepted the order while on the phone with me and did not add markup.

I thought my price was locked in by that order. There is nothing on that page that says otherwise. I read all the asterisks, including E133, which says "By paying an Order Deposit, you are agreeing to the Dealer’s selling price for your selected vehicle." Sounded like a contract to me.

After the order, I started seeing some comments about dealers adding markup (ADM) after the order has been placed. It was then that I was steered to the "Order FAQ's" button much further down the order page. According to the language there, all I actually did was give the dealer a $500 deposit. That deposit allowed them to place the order for an F150 Lightning to come to their lot. It's theirs, not mine, unless I pay whatever they ask me to pay for it. They could ask $20,000 ADM, and if I refused, sell it to someone else. Furthermore, if I decide I don't want to buy it, they can keep my $500 (although I doubt they would).

Here is the fine print in the FAQ's: "The Dealer’s final selling price may be subject to change—that is between you and the Dealer and will be reflected in your Purchase Agreement."

So, worried that I had been duped into placing an order without a firm price, I asked them to enter into a Purchase Agreement, and that I expected it to be at MSRP. After considerable hemming and hawing, they finally told me in writing that it would be $5,000 over MSRP.

I have talked with Ford Customer Support about this. Paraphrasing: "Unfortunately these are independent dealers and we can't do anything. We are taking complaints, and have recorded yours, and these dealers who are doing this may have their allocations lowered in the future." I pointed out that their website is deceptive. Their answer didn't change.

So, I know there has been talk about the Texas AG, Ken Paxton, "going after" these dealers. Seems to me Ford has been deceptive as well. Has anyone actually attempted to address this, and if so, have you had any success?

Thanks all.

@Ford Motor Company I am bumping this thread, because it is my delivery week. I plan to go in to Autonation Corpus Christi and firmly but politely tell them that the time to disclose ADM was at the time of the order. I expect to purchase my truck for the price put in writing at that time, which is MSRP.

I have called Ford Customer Support several times. I even sent a letter a couple of months ago, without a response.

I believe that the Ford site is deceptive in not alerting the customer that the order is not an order for the customer, but instead for the dealer. To account for Ford's part in this deception, I would appreciate the backing of Ford when I go to the table.

Please advise. Thank you.

 

[Amps]

I believe that the Ford site is deceptive in not alerting the customer that the order is not an order for the customer, but instead for the dealer.

I'm going to have to disagree here. It is widely disclosed throughout the reservation and ordering process that the dealer is the final governing authority on pricing. With existing franchising agreements, the manufacturer can only sell to the dealer, not directly to the consumer. Ford can only enforce dealer behavior with product allocations, except in egregious breaches that sullies the reputation of the manufacturer. I think you'll find that, legally, the bar is higher than sneaky ADMs. It sucks and you have to rely on "Dealer Business Ethics" (too often, the dodo bird of ethical business practices) and how much they value their local reputation.

 

[MM in SouthTX]

I'm going to have to disagree here. It is widely disclosed throughout the reservation and ordering process that the dealer is the final governing authority on pricing. With existing franchising agreements, the manufacturer can only sell to the dealer, not directly to the consumer. Ford can only enforce dealer behavior with product allocations, except in egregious breaches that sullies the reputation of the manufacturer. I think you'll find that, legally, the bar is higher than sneaky ADMs. It sucks and you have to rely on "Dealer Business Ethics" (too often, the dodo bird of ethical business practices) and how much they value their local reputation.

That's not what I read in the fine print on the Ford Order page. When I place an order, I may not be looking at the "widely disclosed" things you are talking about. Can you tell me what your are referring to?

 

[MM in SouthTX]

 

[MickeyAO]

Start making the calls to the TXAG! Paxton has already gone after one dealership in Texas that tacked on ADM after the order was placed. You should be able to find the thread on here somewhere, but I think it was in the Longview area. Make sure your dealership knows you will be contacting the AG.

 

[Amps]

That's not what I read in the fine print on the Ford Order page. When I place an order, I may not be looking at the "widely disclosed" things you are talking about. Can you tell me what your are referring to?

I was referring to these two Terms and Conditions pages that were posted on the first days of Lightning reservations (5/19/21) and orders (1/6/22) respectively.

https://www.ford.com/help/terms/reservations-payments-orders/#reservation

https://www.ford.com/help/terms/reservations-payments-orders/#order

You are blaming the manufacturer for deception. My point is that it the dealer is the guilty party. The manufacturer has made it abundantly clear in the terms and conditions that buyers accept when remitting the refundable reservation deposit and order acceptance that it is the dealer selling the vehicle. The money goes straight to the dealer, not Ford.

I'm not a lawyer. But, I have made the same point on this forum that you made–with the same linked fine print from E27 on the online order page–that I believe that the dealer may have committed an actionable breach when adding non-disclosed fees to an order they already (electronically) agreed to by accepting the order through Ford's online ordering portal. Having the printout from the order page saved me about $375 in fees and price hikes that were protected by Ford and got my full $600 deposit credited at the time of the sale (including the portion they 'lost'). The dealer was working from a completely different order and invoicing system than found on the Ford site. The Ford invoice was exactly what the dealer accepted the day the truck was ordered.

 

[MM in SouthTX]

I was referring to these two Terms and Conditions pages that were posted on the first days of Lightning reservations (5/19/21) and orders (1/6/22) respectively.

https://www.ford.com/help/terms/reservations-payments-orders/#reservation

https://www.ford.com/help/terms/reservations-payments-orders/#order

You are blaming the manufacturer for deception. My point is that it the dealer is the guilty party. The manufacturer has made it abundantly clear in the terms and conditions that buyers accept when remitting the refundable reservation deposit and order acceptance that it is the dealer selling the vehicle. The money goes straight to the dealer, not Ford.

I'm not a lawyer. But, I have made the same point on this forum that you made–with the same linked fine print from E27 on the online order page–that I believe that the dealer may have committed an actionable breach when adding non-disclosed fees to an order they already (electronically) agreed to by accepting the order through Ford's online ordering portal. Having the printout from the order page saved me about $375 in fees and price hikes that were protected by Ford and got my full $600 deposit credited at the time of the sale (including the portion they 'lost'). The dealer was working from a completely different order and invoicing system than found on the Ford site. The Ford invoice was exactly what the dealer accepted the day the truck was ordered.

Okay. I don’t recall ever seeing these terms or being asked to review them. Thanks for the info.

 

[Gnarwhl]

My dealer added $5k after I ordered as well. I called to ask them what is up and they just said that no, they are only doing that for new orders, not people who have already ordered. Does that even make sense? Why would it show up on my order? It was not in there when I ordered originally and I have in writing from several different people at the dealership that they will not be adding anything above MSRP....I guess we'll see...if I ever get scheduled for production...

 

[JLee]

My dealer added $5k after I ordered as well. I called to ask them what is up and they just said that no, they are only doing that for new orders, not people who have already ordered. Does that even make sense? Why would it show up on my order? It was not in there when I ordered originally and I have in writing from several different people at the dealership that they will not be adding anything above MSRP....I guess we'll see...if I ever get scheduled for production...

By "showed up on your order" do you mean online? If so, that happened to mine as well - my dealer said that their system automatically adds it but they aren't charging ADM on Lightnings. I have a signed (paper) order sheet from the dealer without it.

 

[MM in SouthTX]

For those who are facing dealers who want to charge over MSRP, I have a tool for you. Go on EBay, search for Ford Lightnings on EBay Motors, then choose Auction items. After that, click the Advanced Search button. On that page, click on Sold listings.

This will eliminate the "Buy It Now" inflated prices, and only show you completed auctions with actual sale prices.

Here is the link for that search if you don't want to navigate yourself.

You will see that the last two Lariats have sold for $86,200 and $86,500 (excluding the demo that has a "sold" listing but is not available until December).

In past months you can see that Lariats were selling for up to $110,000. The sale prices are dropping. Don't let them tell you that you could flip it for $10,000 or more as a justification to charge you ADM. Not gonna happen.

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