My recent CCS vs NACS charging experience

[evans2017]

Decided to make a video about my recent charging stop, where there is CCS next to superchargers. I believe that NACS will probably wipe out most CCS stations

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[Monkey]

CCS is a dead man walking. Looks like Stellantis (Dodge/RAM, Mercedes, etc..) is about to make a similar announcement as Ford and GM. KIA just said the other day that they'll switch to NACS if it's what the NA market decides on. RJ made a cryptic statement in Rivian's update last week, not addressing the CCS/NACS issue specifically, but that they may need to rethink some aspects of how they're deploying their RAN (Rivian Adventure Network) charging. And now the R1 line getting some new tech updates early next year and specific mention of new charging hardware and LFP battery options.

Ultimately I think the only company that could keep CCS alive, if they choose to do so, would be Toyota. But there's nothing to gain by doing so... ChargePoint and EVgo have announced NACS support... Once Ford/GM start shipping vehicles with the NACS connector, then EA and other charge networks will have to support NACS to get federal subsidies for new charging installations. I'm hopeful that the industry can just rip the band-aid off now and we can all go NACS in the near future.

 

[swajames]

I don't know I get all the noise about this, the problem hasn't ever been the connector it's the reliability of the CCS networks/chargers themselves (albeit I've never had much of an issue with EA whenever I've used them, but of course many others have). Looking forward to the opportunity to charge at Tesla stations, but they are already significantly more expensive than EA and I've generally found the EA 150/350 stations to charge pretty well. The price differential between Tesla and EA isn't going to get any smaller, either.

 

[Monkey]

I meant to add that in my comment above... The video is looking for issues between chargers and has nothing to do with the charging connectors themselves. NACS is the simpler, more elegant connector and it has a superior locking mechanism. There is nothing wrong with CCS other than just being a bulkier connector with unnecessary redundancy.

 

[Heliian]

All they have to do is replace the connector and update the software. Shouldn't be a problem at all to change over any dcfc. Options are nice as there are going to be at least 4 connectors in circulation for some time to come.

 

[smaster553]

Decided to make a video about my recent charging stop, where there is CCS next to superchargers. I believe that NACS will probably wipe out most CCS stations

Not wipeout, just those stations like Electrify America will have to swap connectors. And there can be price war, if Electrify America is 20% cheaper than Tesla then there will be people who will go to them.

 

[G-Zeus]

Competition is good. So it will be more about what charging experience do you prefer - high quality Tesla experience at a higher price? Or a lower/inconsistent quality and cheaper experience with other networks?

 

[mr.Magoo]

what charging experience do you prefer

We're all jealous of the instant feeling of inner peace, fulfillment and sense of purpose you get when plugging in a NACS plug/cable.

It's like Gandhi and Dalai Lama sat down together one day and designed a charging handle, that or they just channeled Elon to do it for them...

 

[ZSC100]

CCS isn't dead and isn't going anywhere for years. The whole NACS thing is/was a publicity stunt. The earliest ANY traditional auto maker could implement NACS on their vehicle would be 2yrs. There are over a hundred thousand CCS chargers in NA and you think the industry would let all those fail/be obsolete? Not only that Billions of $$$ are currently at work installing CCS chargers all over NA. Tesla needs to stop playing games like Apple and open their chargers 100% and sell the adapters to CCS. It's so easy for them, but they are trying to stronghold the industry into switching to NACS. It's ridiculous, CCS is the standard and they are just worried about their grossly overvalued stock dropping. Meanwhile everyone suffers.

 

[swajames]

Competition is good. So it will be more about what charging experience do you prefer - high quality Tesla experience at a higher price? Or a lower/inconsistent quality and cheaper experience with other networks?

I don't know it's that simple. Tesla charging isn't always flawless, and we've absolutely no experience yet of what supercharging at a Tesla location will be like when multiple brands with different charge port placements and very different vehicle dimensions are using the same supercharger locations, and EA and others with CCS networks aren't always bad.

Only time will tell, and yes competition is good. But it's way to soon to prejudge the outcome.

 

[Heliian]

People are going to use the stations that offer the best value regardless of connector type.

 

[ZSC100]

People are going to use the stations that offer the best value regardless of connector type.

That's why I fully believe this is total PR stunt stock manipulation BS. Tesla's power available now with the very few magic docks is more expensive than an ICE solution, why would any non-tesla owner want this. In my city there are only 2 Tesla super charger sites, but hundreds of CCS sites. Also, a friend of mine that lives in DFW and owns 2 Tesla's said superchargers are already a joke in Dallas, the few times he's needed them they are 100% in use. He says by word of mouth research people are buying EV's with no way to charge them at home, WTF, why would you do this. If you live in a condo/apt/etc. and have no way to Level2 charge every night you shouldn't have an EV IMO. To me, charging your EV at home and waking up every day to a full tank is the absolute only way to go. I fast charge maybe once or twice a month when I leave town, otherwise I drive average 50mi/day in my Lightning and it's the absolute best vehicle I've ever owned.

 

[Monkey]

CCS isn't dead and isn't going anywhere for years. The whole NACS thing is/was a publicity stunt. The earliest ANY traditional auto maker could implement NACS on their vehicle would be 2yrs. There are over a hundred thousand CCS chargers in NA and you think the industry would let all those fail/be obsolete? Not only that Billions of $$$ are currently at work installing CCS chargers all over NA. Tesla needs to stop playing games like Apple and open their chargers 100% and sell the adapters to CCS. It's so easy for them, but they are trying to stronghold the industry into switching to NACS. It's ridiculous, CCS is the standard and they are just worried about their grossly overvalued stock dropping. Meanwhile everyone suffers.

CCS is not "the standard" it is "a standard". The NACS connector was always freely licensable, since the beginning, long before CCS even existed. Tesla made it a 100% open standard, now out of their control, late last year.

You are correct that CCS isn't going anywhere for years, we'll see chargers and vehicles with the port for a long time to come. That said, the mainstream shift to NACS is now inevitable as Rivian and Hyundai, are jumping in officially as of today.

Regardless of how you may feel about Tesla, NACS is the superior connector. That is one of the key driving forces behind its momentum. Access to the Tesla supercharging networks is something that is much deeper than the charge connector, which is almost incidental in all of this. I will say that the industry people I talk to who are familiar with the Ford/Tesla deal are saying that it's pretty great and presumably the GM, Rivian, etc.. deals are all the same. These other automakers not only have the ability to use the charge network beginning early next year, but they can build into it with their own chargers and have their own piece of the pie. All our Lightnings, Mach-e's, Rivians, Bolts, etc.. with CCS ports will be able to use Tesla superchargers starting early next year. We just need an adapter. Of course Tesla will sell the adapter, but so will all the participating automakers and a number of third parties.

Tesla will continue outfitting many new charger locations, as well as upgrading existing locations, with the Magic Dock adapter for supporting vehicles with the CCS port that do not have direct access to the entirety of the network. Sure, Tesla is gate-keeping for the majority of their network for now. They built it, it's still better than all the others, so it makes sense to maintain a level of control. It's no longer a Tesla-only network, but access is going to be metered out over the next couple years. Incorporating NACS ports on a vehicle does not grant it access to the supercharger network and all our current CCS vehicles from participating makers will get access while not having the port.

And remember, it's not just automakers that are picking the port standard. ChargePoint, EVgo and WalMart are now onboard with NACS support -- WalMart has yet to unveil and install any of their own chargers, so we'll see how that goes.

 

[Heliian]

NACS is the superior connector.

In reality they both are garbage connectors so saying one is better than the other is pointless. I don't care what connector it is, just make one standard, just like gas nozzles.

 

[ZSC100]

This is why I believe it won't happen. It parallels Apple and the rest of the world so closely. Tesla want's control and won't open up it's network to all NOW. That is the key indicator that NACS will stay the "Tesla Plug" and CCS will continue as the world wide standard for EV charging. Until Tesla opens up their charging network to everyone with ZERO conditions no big auto maker will chance engineering a port into their vehicle. If you think different that's fine, we'll see in a few years.

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