Best Charging Practices?

[Mache_Enrique]

I have had my lighting now for about 3 weeks and love it. But was also struggling to see what the recommended AC charging limits are. The MachE manual was a little more specific with a 90% daily charge limit recommendation if I recall.

The only thing I could find in the Lightning manual was below that said charging to less than 80% will help preserve the battery...which is also the general wisdom you see from the EV expert folks on forums and YouTube.

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[RickLightning]

I have had my lighting now for about 3 weeks and love it. But was also struggling to see what the recommended AC charging limits are. The MachE manual was a little more specific with a 90% daily charge limit recommendation if I recall.

The only thing I could find in the Lightning manual was below that said charging to less than 80% will help preserve the battery...which is also the general wisdom you see from the EV expert folks on forums and YouTube.

That refers to DC fast charging.

 

[loveurdj]

Same for me in NW Florida. I've had my truck for 8 months now and yet to charge it anywhere but home!

Same here Orange Park only Level 2 no issues had the new update done via Ford Mobile Tech Friday let's see what kind of errors happen now, 3500 miles.

 

[Mache_Enrique]

That refers to DC fast charging.

I double checked, the clip from the manual I posted says AC charging, not DC.

 

[JTPDX]

I agree, don’t overthink it. I charge whenever the sun is out and I can pump as much of my surplus solar array production that normally flows back to the grid, straight into my truck. In winter now, with less sun, I let the days string out and run the battery down to around 40% before taking it back up to 90% on an overnight charge usually.

It was stunningly awesome to run this truck almost entirely on sunlight for its first 5000 miles last summer/fall without even thinking about it.

 

[Double D]

I set my Ford Pro charger to 70%. Not sure if that will increase battery life, but my TOU starts at midnight until 3PM. So starting at midnight every 2-3 nights, it is charged to 90% by morning without any issues.

 

[twixr3000]

Well i suppose I am the outlier here.
I have consistently charged my 22 Platinum on level 2 charging at home to 100 percent right from the get go . Have had the truck now 1 year plus or minus a week...no degradation by Kilometers of charge that i get per instance, it has only it proved ... only been on dcfc one time .
My understanding is Ford has a 12% reserve "hold back" on the pack .

 

[MickeyAO]

Well i suppose I am the outlier here.
I have consistently charged my 22 Platinum on level 2 charging at home to 100 percent right from the get go . Have had the truck now 1 year plus or minus a week...no degradation by Kilometers of charge that i get per instance, it has only it proved ... only been on dcfc one time .
My understanding is Ford has a 12% reserve "hold back" on the pack .

Please don't fool yourself in thinking you have no degradation because you don't see any loss in range.

I can tell you that at the cell level, you are causing more degradation by consistently charging to 100% (93% of actual capacity) than I am by going to 85% (~80% actual), the question is will you burn through the buffer before you sell the vehicle

I cycle cells for a living so I've seen what ACTUALLY happens, and should have actual data on the Lightning cell soon (I have plenty of data on SK Online cells of the same chemistry)

Oh, I also blow up batteries for a living Check SwRI YouTube page for some of the videos we got to share with the public.

 

[Maquis]

Please don't fool yourself in thinking you have no degradation because you don't see any loss in range.

I can tell you that at the cell level, you are causing more degradation by consistently charging to 100% (93% of actual capacity) than I am by going to 85% (~80% actual), the question is will you burn through the buffer before you sell the vehicle

I cycle cells for a living so I've seen what ACTUALLY happens, and should have actual data on the Lightning cell soon (I have plenty of data on SK Online cells of the same chemistry)

Oh, I also blow up batteries for a living Check SwRI YouTube page for some of the videos we got to share with the public.

You can lead a horse to water…….

 

[twixr3000]

well i never stated i was smart

 

[Maxx]

Please don't fool yourself in thinking you have no degradation because you don't see any loss in range.

I can tell you that at the cell level, you are causing more degradation by consistently charging to 100% (93% of actual capacity) than I am by going to 85% (~80% actual), the question is will you burn through the buffer before you sell the vehicle

I cycle cells for a living so I've seen what ACTUALLY happens, and should have actual data on the Lightning cell soon (I have plenty of data on SK Online cells of the same chemistry)

Oh, I also blow up batteries for a living Check SwRI YouTube page for some of the videos we got to share with the public.

with apologies if I asked you this before, what contributes to cell failure the most;

• Inadequate quality control at manufacturing plant.
• DCFC, or other sources of heat?
• hard acceleration
• charging to 100%
• …….

How reducing capacity relates to cell failure if at all?

Do you know if BMS and pack design for Lightening have a way of isolating a cell or a pack before failing automatically?

 

[MickeyAO]

with apologies if I asked you this before, what contributes to cell failure the most;

• Inadequate quality control at manufacturing plant.
• DCFC, or other sources of heat?
• hard acceleration
• charging to 100%
• …….

Bullet points by order
Inadequate quality control has a tendency to lead to cell failure leading into a full thermal runaway. This is where you see stop sales, only charge outdoors, etc. ALA Bolt

DCFC higher currents add damage to the cells via intercalation (see below on 100%) of the lithium ions and the heat added

Hard acceleration is like a very short DCFC

Charging to 100% packs the ions in and leads to intercalation problems and lattice damage. The ions might find a 'traffic jam' trying to move into the lattice, which will lead to lithium plating as they deposit on the outside of the lattice. Lithium plating will cause dendrites that will continue to grow which will decreases capacity and eventually pierce the separator, causing a short circuit in the cell (same as when I drive a nail through a cell), which will start the process for a thermal runaway. If you MUST charge to 100% for your daily trip, make sure you hit 100% shortly before you start driving.

Other common processes that cause lithium plating are charging the cell when it's temperature below 20C (the colder the worse plating), and charging at too fast of a rate. Now you know why your charge rates are limited!

We do a lot of research on lithium plating and I HATE when they tell me to continue plating a cell in my lab ("we need more plating, but don't cause the cell to short circuit") We even dissect cells that we've known to cause lithium plating so we can document the damage.

Ranked by damage? In order from worst to least, Quality Control, 100%, DCFC, Hard Acceleration

But people will inevitably disagree because they "charged to 100% for years with no loss in range" or "I only DCFC and have NEVER seen a loss in range". They only have access to anecdotal information at the useable pack capacity information, where I get to see and study what is happening at the cell level.

 

[MickeyAO]

BTW, the way I typically induce lithium plating is to charge the cell at the fastest manufacturer rated rate to 100% followed by the manufacturers recommended discharge rate. For extra plating, I lower the chamber temperature to 0C or below.

I currently have 2 dozen cells going through lithium plating profiles right now, with 4 of them at -10C (we weren't getting enough plating at 25C )

 

[Maxx]

Bullet points by order
Inadequate quality control has a tendency to lead to cell failure leading into a full thermal runaway. This is where you see stop sales, only charge outdoors, etc. ALA Bolt

DCFC higher currents add damage to the cells via intercalation (see below on 100%) of the lithium ions and the heat added

Hard acceleration is like a very short DCFC

Charging to 100% packs the ions in and leads to intercalation problems and lattice damage. The ions might find a 'traffic jam' trying to move into the lattice, which will lead to lithium plating as they deposit on the outside of the lattice. Lithium plating will cause dendrites that will continue to grow which will decreases capacity and eventually pierce the separator, causing a short circuit in the cell (same as when I drive a nail through a cell), which will start the process for a thermal runaway. If you MUST charge to 100% for your daily trip, make sure you hit 100% shortly before you start driving.

Other common processes that cause lithium plating are charging the cell when it's temperature below 20C (the colder the worse plating), and charging at too fast of a rate. Now you know why your charge rates are limited!

We do a lot of research on lithium plating and I HATE when they tell me to continue plating a cell in my lab ("we need more plating, but don't cause the cell to short circuit") We even dissect cells that we've known to cause lithium plating so we can document the damage.

Ranked by damage? In order from worst to least, Quality Control, 100%, DCFC, Hard Acceleration

But people will inevitably disagree because they "charged to 100% for years with no loss in range" or "I only DCFC and have NEVER seen a loss in range". They only have access to anecdotal information at the useable pack capacity information, where I get to see and study what is happening at the cell level.

Super educational. Really appreciate it. I would say here is the last question but you know me better than that:

It sounds like my current processes are inline with reducing risk and increasing longevity. However it sounds like just cycling and aging alone may cause these things to a lesser extent just due to repetition of ions going back and forth. It may take 4-6 times as long to get there (is that right)?

Do you know if there are signs before or immediately after separator is pierced but before thermal runaway that BMS or owner can watch for? Would the voltage variation from normal for that cell drastically increase? Basically, once my truck gets old, is it a crap shoot or there is a way I can prevent setting my house on fire by watching for something?

When an 8 year old iPhone caught on fire, Apple said we never thought anyone would keep it that long. My last truck was 20 years old and in running condition when I sold it. Are our Lithium ion EVs disposable after warranty and when we get in, will we be putting our asses on a ticking time bomb?

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