Should Ford Have Their Own Fast Charging Hubs?

[Txxthie]

NOTE: Improved the Title name after posting

“BYD overtakes VW Group as China’s best selling car brand”. VW held this distinction for 15 years straight. Chinese auto makers are expanding rapidly into markets all over the world. Elon Musk commented recently on an earnings call that without tariffs and regulations, Chinese car makers would eventually crush legacy auto. Why would Tesla give up their major advantage (SC network), if there wasn’t concern for slowing US EV adoption?

BEV sales are now in decline and the negativity towards electric vehicles is at a record high. Thats great for PHEV and ICE sales, but the future is BEVs. As a result of slowing sales, manufacturers have cut back on production and future investments. I believe this is a HUGE mistake considering the speed of innovation from the Chinese and Tesla. The atrocious US charging infrastructure has ACTUALLY reduced the demand of BEVs and is a major threat to the future of US auto manufacturing. Interest rates have slowed sales but not demand. Ride sharing companies are increasingly using BEVs and their drivers primarily use DCFC. The Chicago charging disaster was partly due to increased ride sharing demand. Uber and Lyft really need their own charging depots, even if it’s only 48A Level 2.

It doesn’t seem help from the government is coming quickly enough to make meaningful change. Should car makers consider purchasing/partnering with an existing charging OEMs? Chargepoint, EVGO, and Blink are currently being valued like they are going bankrupt. Mercedes just launched amazing looking branded chargers at select locations. Rivian has branded chargers and sales of their vehicles are increasing despite the economic slowdown. Branded chargers would convey to consumers that the company is fully committed to BEVs. It’s great visual marketing and select locations near amenities would only increase the value.

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[THX1138]

I think Tesla will be getting a lot of Federal grant money by opening up their charging network, as well as the NACS connector.

 

[Bills R Electric]

Should Ford Have Branded Chargers/Network?

IMO, No.

Ford doesn't have the cash to invest in building out charging networks like Tesla did.
It is expensive to acquire leases, buy, and deploy charging PODs.
And quite frankly you need a lot of them to move the needle.

Now, I do think Ford should buy charging PODS from Tesla, ordered with a blank design, and put Ford blue logos on those PODS and put them at Ford Dealerships (this is easier said they done because each dealership has a unique footprint and after hours access). Charge 20cents per kWh and get on the ABRP type apps. Maybe Ford currently can't build a lot of EVs, but they could be building foot traffic over the few years and people use these chargers at the dealers.

PS Ford Dealers should get heavy into selling tires, especially for EVs. Oil changes and tuneups are going away, but everyone needs tire.

 

[hturnerfamily]

Ford doesn't own or operate gas stations, either... I don't know any of that has anything to do with Ford or EV sales in general... Rivian has done this, though I don't think it really matters, but they thought they 'needed' this in order to promote their ONLINE orders, since they don't have any physical dealers or presence... it's a totally different environment for them. I've actually never seen one, either.
Ford does not need 'branded' chargers, but they DO need DCFC chargers at every dealership, in easy access and maneuverability for us trucks. We're seeing more and and more DCFC locations, from all different brands and charge providers, though, so, maybe this will be a much lower tier conversation as time moves forward...

 

[RickLightning]

“BYD overtakes VW Group as China’s best selling car brand”. VW held this distinction for 15 years straight. Chinese auto makers are expanding rapidly into markets all over the world. Elon Musk commented recently on an earnings call that without tariffs and regulations, Chinese car makers would eventually crush legacy auto. Why would Tesla give up their major advantage (SC network), if there wasn’t concern for slowing US EV adoption?

BEV sales are now in decline and the negativity towards electric vehicles is at a record high. Thats great for PHEV and ICE sales, but the future is BEVs. As a result of slowing sales, manufacturers have cut back on production and future investments. I believe this is a HUGE mistake considering the speed of innovation from the Chinese and Tesla. The atrocious US charging infrastructure has ACTUALLY reduced the demand of BEVs and is a major threat to the future of US auto manufacturing. Interest rates have slowed sales but not demand. Ride sharing companies are increasingly using BEVs and their drivers primarily use DCFC. The Chicago charging disaster was partly due to increased ride sharing demand. Uber and Lyft really need their own charging depots, even if it’s only 48A Level 2.

It doesn’t seem help from the government is coming quickly enough to make meaningful change. Should car makers consider purchasing/partnering with an existing charging OEMs? Chargepoint, EVGO, and Blink are currently being valued like they are going bankrupt. Mercedes just launched amazing looking branded chargers at select locations. Rivian has branded chargers and sales of their vehicles are increasing despite the economic slowdown. Branded chargers would convey to consumers that the company is fully committed to BEVs. It’s great visual marketing and select locations near amenities would only increase the value.

BEV sales are not in decline. Growth of BEV sales is in decline.

Help from the government isn't coming fast enough? Branded chargers? 1,550 Ford dealerships will be adding DCFC chargers. Ford DOES have branded chargers...https://www.fordpro.com/en-us/charging/

The government is investing $7.5B in charging infrastructure. The first of those chargers came on line late in 2023.

 

[hturnerfamily]

this does bring to light, though, a conversation about the 'disconnect' between engineers, manufacturers, DCFS charge providers, and us owners:

A) if you don't OWN and DRIVE and TRAVEL long distances with an EV, and EV of ANY size, brand, shape, speed, or range, you DON'T truly understand DCFC needs: Location, Location, Location. Numbers, Numbers, Numbers. Speed, Speed, Speed.
B) if you sit in an engineering office, at a desk, and expect to 'understand' what EV owners really need, you are going to fail in your efforts. You are going to build DCFC units that seem to have ridiculous Interaction Requirements from drivers, ridiculous Sized units, and placed in Ridiculous logisticals locations(i.e., the main drag lane coming into a Walmart!)...
C) if you are a manufacturer who doesn't understand how an owner needs to easily charge at home, you tend to put the charge port wherever it fits the easiest manufacturing location, rather than where it can be best used at. No, there is no single 'easy' answer here, and I'll bet we all have a varied option about 'where' a charge port should be. If you are a Lightning owner, I'll bet, though, you would agree that having a charge port at BOTH sides of the truck makes the MOST sense, and especially since you have the PORT DOOR already there!
D) DCFC Charge Providers need to consider ALL the needs of drivers arriving to CHARGE: Location(where is the unit compared to the lanes of travel/traffic), Logistics(how does one pull into/up to/next to a unit), the number and Length of cables for each unit(why do we need TWO cables if the unit can ONLY charge a single vehicle at a time?), the RELIABILITY of each unit, the SPEED(please Advertise real-world numbers), and the capabilities of ACTIVATING and Paying for the session.

Us owners see it ALL. The others seem to only see what 'they' are in the business of seeing.

 

[Heliian]

Ford doesn't own or operate gas stations, either

Exactly!

 

[Txxthie]

I think Tesla will be getting a lot of Federal grant money by opening up their charging network, as well as the NACS connector.

Its to early to tell if that will effect their bottom line. The stock is not currently being valued like it will. 2024 POS credit + Highland TM3 + Cybertruck + SC opening = TSLA down -26% YTD. I don't believe the roll out and actually use case will be the panacea that CCS owners are looking for. The wall garden of Tesla works like a fine watch currently. The chaos that is found on the CCS side is not going to be welcomed by Tesla owners. It's going to be interesting!

On a positive note EA is opening another installation in CT, very close to me in Rockyhill. Great access and close to an Aldi's. Off on its own with plenty of parking. This is an ideal setup, great job EA! Now put a canopy on it and really make a statement.

 

[Txxthie]

Exactly!

Maybe it's time to consider it! Why not control the charging experience?
https://electrek.co/2023/01/05/char...hundreds-of-fast-charging-hubs-to-ev-drivers/

 

[davehu]

I think Tesla will be getting a lot of Federal grant money by opening up their charging network, as well as the NACS connector.

doubt ford will get a penny for this. They don't have a network. it's just a piece of software that facilitates payment for chargers other people own.

 

[Txxthie]

this does bring to light, though, a conversation about the 'disconnect' between engineers, manufacturers, DCFS charge providers, and us owners:

A) if you don't OWN and DRIVE and TRAVEL long distances with an EV, and EV of ANY size, brand, shape, speed, or range, you DON'T truly understand DCFC needs: Location, Location, Location. Numbers, Numbers, Numbers. Speed, Speed, Speed.
B) if you sit in an engineering office, at a desk, and expect to 'understand' what EV owners really need, you are going to fail in your efforts. You are going to build DCFC units that seem to have ridiculous Interaction Requirements from drivers, ridiculous Sized units, and placed in Ridiculous logisticals locations(i.e., the main drag lane coming into a Walmart!)...
C) if you are a manufacturer who doesn't understand how an owner needs to easily charge at home, you tend to put the charge port wherever it fits the easiest manufacturing location, rather than where it can be best used at. No, there is no single 'easy' answer here, and I'll bet we all have a varied option about 'where' a charge port should be. If you are a Lightning owner, I'll bet, though, you would agree that having a charge port at BOTH sides of the truck makes the MOST sense, and especially since you have the PORT DOOR already there!
D) DCFC Charge Providers need to consider ALL the needs of drivers arriving to CHARGE: Location(where is the unit compared to the lanes of travel/traffic), Logistics(how does one pull into/up to/next to a unit), the number and Length of cables for each unit(why do we need TWO cables if the unit can ONLY charge a single vehicle at a time?), the RELIABILITY of each unit, the SPEED(please Advertise real-world numbers), and the capabilities of ACTIVATING and Paying for the session.

Us owners see it ALL. The others seem to only see what 'they' are in the business of seeing.

I will gladly take more DCFC installations irregardless of their design or factors you mentioned. We need a lot more chargers. Farley road tripped a Lightning and seems to have a good idea about what the average EV driver needs and the state of the CCS network.

At one time the coverage of cell phone networks was a differentiator, crazy huh? Verizon's famous "Can you hear me now" sold a lot of phones for them. Your product needs "reliable service" to make consumers adopt it.

 

[Txxthie]

BEV sales are not in decline. Growth of BEV sales is in decline.

Help from the government isn't coming fast enough? Branded chargers? 1,550 Ford dealerships will be adding DCFC chargers. Ford DOES have branded chargers...https://www.fordpro.com/en-us/charging/

The government is investing $7.5B in charging infrastructure. The first of those chargers came on line late in 2023.

Ok, Ford cut Lightning production 2x due to declining growth of sales.

I don't see these DCFCs at any Ford dealerships near me. If they do have them, they are not readily accessible to the public or are used by the dealership. Additionally, dealerships don't welcome visitors after hours. Charging hubs should be in populated areas where more and more EV's are looking to recharge, offering a space for drivers to plug in near retail and other service centers in addition to popular highway corridors.

Is that $7.5B at risk with a change of president?

 

[RickLightning]

Ok, Ford cut Lightning production 2x due to declining growth of sales.

I don't see these DCFCs at any Ford dealerships near me. If they do have them, they are not readily accessible to the public or are used by the dealership. Additionally, dealerships don't welcome visitors after hours. Charging hubs should be in populated areas where more and more EV's are looking to recharge, offering a space for drivers to plug in near retail and other service centers in addition to popular highway corridors.

Is that $7.5B at risk with a change of president?

Correct. Ford plans to produce more Lightnings in 2024 than 2023, but less than the projected 150,000 from a while ago.

DCFCs have to be installed by the Model E dealers.

 

[Txxthie]

Correct. Ford plans to produce more Lightnings in 2024 than 2023, but less than the projected 150,000 from a while ago.

DCFCs have to be installed by the Model E dealers.

We need DCFCs now, the roll out is too slow! Day 1 of Lightning launch, chargers should have been in the ground. Call me skeptical that dealerships will follow thru in the time frame or quantity required. ICE Ford trucks are the revenue generator and it's "back to business" for many of them with the recent EV back lash and growth of BEV sales is in decline .

 

[mr.Magoo]

DCFCs have to be installed by the Model E dealers.

Wasn't that...
A) Platinum level dealers only
B) By 2026
C) scrapped about a month ago

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