Your 'Connected' Car May Be Transmitting Your Driving Data to Insurance Companies

[Dinozero]

The switch disables driving data and I expect that data is indeed no longer being shared. The app is hiding charging data, which is either a punishment or a bug in the app. I would expect charging data to actually stop being shared if I turn off share vehicle data.

I agree it does seem more like a bug.

What home assistant app are you using?

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[ExCivilian]

I understand now. However, for me, this is a distinction without a practical difference. Couldn't I be charged more because I was put in the same category as everyone else who does rapid accelerations? It wouldn't be individualized per se, but my rates could go up based on a particular risk profile that the system would automatically put me in. Am I wrong about that?

No, you're not wrong. I'm not sure why people continue to split those hairs because obviously, in the context of this forum (and the reddit sub) we are "F150 Lightning Drivers" so a broader risk pool of "F150 Lightning Drivers" applies to us as much as individualized tracking would do; arguably it's worse since I'm going to get dinged for bad behaviors by other people in this pool and, in particular, the ghost braking and oddities others have mentioned that I've experienced that would seem to an outsider (such as an insurer) that me, or my truck, are prone to phantom braking and weird oddities, which would result in increased premiums for me who is driving this truck!

I agree it does seem more like a bug.

What home assistant app are you using?

It's not a bug according to someone posting earlier in this thread who contacted Ford and was told the obfuscation of the FordPass features is intentional. It's no mystery why they'd do this, either, because they want to incentivize us to consent to them selling our data.

Our data is extremely valuable, which is why entire industries have sprouted up over the decades to vacuum it all up. I'm not sure why anyone would be ok with that even disregarding how it impacts our insurance rates--that's, frankly speaking, the least of our concerns.

 

[Maxx]

It's not a bug according to someone posting earlier in this thread who contacted Ford and was told the obfuscation of the FordPass features is intentional. It's no mystery why they'd do this, either, because they want to incentivize us to consent to them selling our data.

Yup, That was me.

What bugles the mind is that a person that has problem their personal data being shared with strangers, has to go to a company (LexisNexis) they never did business with, provide their social security number and a lot more personal information to opt out of something they never opted into. How we are not getting a tax refund for paying salaries of the sellouts in DC is beyond me.

 

[Dinozero]

Yup, That was me.

What bugles the mind is that a person that has problem their personal data being shared with strangers, has to go to a company (LexisNexis) they never did business with, provide their social security number and a lot more personal information to opt out of something they never opted into. How we are not getting a tax refund for paying salaries of the sellouts in DC is beyond me.

My only doubt is you actually talked to someone at Ford with enough knowledge to know what they’re saying or could speak for the company?

 

[Maxx]

My only doubt is you actually talked to someone at Ford with enough knowledge to know what they’re saying or could speak for the company?

I have that doubt too. I left a two star review for the app. They asked me to contact them to address my concerns, and I did. The person at the phone was relatively sharp but I am not sure she was a developer. She put me on hold for a few of my concerns to get the correct response. There is always a chance there were miscommunication between them or she didn't quite talked to her supervisor.

 

[r81stl1n]

I reached out to Ford to see if it is a mistake and if they are willing to separate it. They said it is intentional and they are keeping it the way it is.

I am extremely disappointed in Ford. I don't mind them having the data, and even selling it, if it is anonymized. But selling it with the VIN #, that can be traced back to me. The things they remove to bribe you to enable this is just sad. People ask me how the lightning is, and this may be the issue that removed my recommendation for it.

 

[Maxx]

I am extremely disappointed in Ford. I don't mind them having the data, and even selling it, if it is anonymized. But selling it with the VIN #, that can be traced back to me. The things they remove to bribe you to enable this is just sad. People ask me how the lightning is, and this may be the issue that removed my recommendation for it.

I still don't regret my purchase since I have had no major failures and the essential functionalities have been operating reliably on my truck but I did make sure my rating for the app reflect how I feel about this. I will update my rating as soon as they change their mind about Driving data and charging Details.

I will certainly pay a bit more attention to which businesses are more transparent and protective of my data in my next purchase.

 

[fvineyard]

For anyone interested. Consumer Reports is collecting signatures for sending to the FTC.

Of course this shares a bit more personal info, so decline if you wish (or do not wish maybe).

https://action.consumerreports.org/nb-20240321-ftc-carprivacy

 

[1Jetpilot]

I just turned off Share Driving Data which is described as "Share driving data and usage information such as braking, seat belt status, accelerator pedal and use of driver's assist features with us AND OUR SERVICE PROVIDERS to enable connected services."

In vehicle center screen -> Settings -> Connectivity --> Connected Vehicle Features --> Share Driving Data​

There is a separate item under Feature Settings --> "Insurance-Related Data" which has a lock icon and is OFF with no description available.

In FordPass on your phone, there is another setting "Do not sell my personal information." There are three forms to complete. Each concludes with "Thank you for submitting your request. A company representative with review your request and reach out to you at the submitted email address."

I did the FordPass phone application opt-out of selling my personal information months ago. They've never contacted me. It's likely Ford is still selling my information months after I told them do not sell my personal information.

When you turned Share Driving Data off, did you lose any thing under connected services or anything else?

 

[reffahcs]

I am extremely disappointed in Ford. I don't mind them having the data, and even selling it, if it is anonymized. But selling it with the VIN #, that can be traced back to me. The things they remove to bribe you to enable this is just sad. People ask me how the lightning is, and this may be the issue that removed my recommendation for it.

People keep saying it containers certain data to include the VIN number, but I have not seen any source for this information. I don't doubt the the VIN number is sent to ford with the rest of the info is collected as it's useful information to Ford to spot production issues. But I seriously doubt Ford is selling the volumes of data they have associated with specific VIN's. I could be wrong, but again, I haven't seen a single post in here where someone has any actual information about what data is being sold and how personalized it is. It's all just been speculation and people's own interpretation of generic marketing terms.

 

[theUNSTABLE]

On Wednesday, turned off Share Driving Data, but left on share vehicle data. As others have noted, the charging data disappears from the FordPass app when you disable driving data. I don't mind that since I really only care about the SOC and range anyway.

Now, you'd think that means the charging data is no longer being shared to begin with. NOPE. It's all still readily available. It's just the app that hides the data from you! I have my Home Assistant connected to my Ford account and still pulls all the data that disappeared from the app.

With share driving data disabled, Ford is intentionally hiding charging data in the app even though that data is still actually being shared. This actually smells like a bug in the application, and that it was supposed to be when you turn off share vehicle data. It would be incredibly malicious if this is on purpose.

Connectivity Settings: Driving data off, vehicle data on.

FordPass app with charging data hidden for no apparent reason

Home Assistant showing all the charging data is still being shared

More data in Home Assistant

Hahah I'm glad this came in handy. I need to try to get some more time to go back through those and tweak them.

The home assistant app is pulling that info from the home assistant database. It might pull some data from your Ford account, but I would guess the bulk of that data is coming from the charger and not from Ford's cloud.
https://community.home-assistant.io/t/energy-monitoring-database-location-question/367672

No, I'm 99% sure he is using the 'fordpass-ha' integration, and that custom integration is using the same API as the FordPass APP. That integration also does not support the Ford Charger - only the vehicle.

Source: I wrote the code for those sensors.

Oh that's pretty cool. I'll have to look into that home assistant app.

https://github.com/itchannel/fordpass-ha

Also a bit alarming that all of that data is available from Ford with data sharing disabled. Makes you wonder what the switch actually does?

I was going to do a deep dive into the API and try and determine what was being sent with each toggle. However, during my time trying to add features into the integration I signed up for a Ford Pro account - and linked my vehicle. I *think* this may have changed my settings screen over because the toggles are different than what I remember.

I'll have to double check

Maybe if @Runaway Tractor could post another picture or something of the entire settings so I can compare I can see if my menus are different.
If they are the same I'll play around with the toggles and various API returns to see if anything changes.

 

[theUNSTABLE]

People keep saying it containers certain data to include the VIN number, but I have not seen any source for this information. I don't doubt the the VIN number is sent to ford with the rest of the info is collected as it's useful information to Ford to spot production issues. But I seriously doubt Ford is selling the volumes of data they have associated with specific VIN's. I could be wrong, but again, I haven't seen a single post in here where someone has any actual information about what data is being sold and how personalized it is. It's all just been speculation and people's own interpretation of generic marketing terms.

It somewhat depends.
When this topic was on reddit I did a big reply with what I know - I recommend reading through that which should help you have a better understanding.

Reddit - Privacy, Driving Data, App Features, and API information



The data transmitted to Ford contains your VIN and other information that would be VERY easy to identify to you.
For example:

Have you used the FordPass app to set any locations? Home, Work, etc? Those names and addresses are in there. Also every charger you have used is in there.

 

[reffahcs]

It somewhat depends.
When this topic was on reddit I did a big reply with what I know - I recommend reading through that which should help you have a better understanding.

Reddit - Privacy, Driving Data, App Features, and API information



The data transmitted to Ford contains your VIN and other information that would be VERY easy to identify to you.
For example:

Have you used the FordPass app to set any locations? Home, Work, etc? Those names and addresses are in there. Also every charger you have used is in there.

I understand how OSINT works and all that jazz, I spent my last 10 years in the military in an intel field.
What I'm saying is there's a lot of speculation, but nobody has posted any sources for information about what information Ford is actually *selling* as they may collect a ton of information but it doesn't mean it's all being sold, or it may be anonymized.
And yeah that's why I always set home to my neighbors house

 

[reffahcs]

No, I'm 99% sure he is using the 'fordpass-ha' integration, and that custom integration is using the same API as the FordPass APP. That integration also does not support the Ford Charger - only the vehicle.

That's what I thought too, but I didn't see any of the charging related stuff in fordpass-ha. I set it up and looked at the data from my truck and it's exactly what's listed on the Github page, and nothing more. Not sure where any of that other data in the charts came from, which is why I had assumed it was from the charger.

 

[Dave70]

Well my Lexisnexis report came to me today with all the information they have on me. And I was pretty bored reading it. Every address I've lived at, all of the cars and houses I've owned and what insurance I had on it. Who else is on my policy. Phone numbers ive had. And other misc info. But nothing about driving records given to them by Ford. So this is the big nothing burger. I'm glad it's nothing and I've verified it for myself.

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