Ford Delays T3 Electric Truck Development and Updates EV & Hybrid Plans

[Ventorum94]

@Ford Motor Company can thank Jim “Adam Osbourne” Farley…

Yes slow charging and a too small battery did not help the cause, but those are easy fixes given the work already completed on the next generation EVs.

Rant Over!

Slow charging compared to what? An 800v system with a small battery pack? Or to the vaporware Silverado EV, whose $75k base version is about as likely to make it to market as the original $39k F150 Lightning Pro? The couple of dozen Silverado EV prototypes (like the Hummer EV before them) circulating and greeted with wild enthusiasm by the automotive press (who obviously don’t mind being played like violins) are being accepted as examples of real production vehicles- which is all GM needs, to keep up appearances. Even if each Silverado EV prototype cost $1M to build, it’s a heck of a lot cheaper and less risky than actually being in the mass-produced EV truck business.
You describe a big battery as an easy fix, but I’m not sure about the market for a Lightning that cost $30k more (incl. loss of $7500 tax credit), even if it came with a 200kWh battery pack. At some point, don’t consumers decide not the pay $25k-$30k more for the extra range? (especially in light of Supercharger access) Or, is there more of a market for over-$100k trucks than I thought?
(one good rant deserves another)

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[willk66]

Wait until the public finds out how much it cost to fast charge . Gas prices are going to look cheap to them. I drove across Nevada on I-80 and EA was charging .64/kwh. I charge at home for about .07/kwh but people only listen to how expensive it is to charge on the road. People are not going to buy EVs when the charging infrastructure is not there and prices are so much more than unleaded fuel. If everyone is forced to buy a EV in the next 10 years just think how much electricity rates will be in the near future. Only 7 charging stations have been built by our government from the 3 billion they got. Pete Buttigieg is more worried about equity than he is on making sure we have enough charging stations and the electricity to power them.

 

[detansinn]

It's prudent. They'll get more out of their Lightning investment. No need to rush out more models.

I love my Lightning. I own it title in hand. Not looking to get another pickup truck anytime soon.

 

[Jim Lewis]

It might be very prudent on Ford's part to delay the T3 if the new CATL battery is for real (I think it's LFP, though): 1 million miles and 15 years, little degradation in the first 1,000 recharges, charges VERY fast. If true, Ford would be stupid not to incorporate that technology into the T3, if it can.

CATL launches new EV battery that will last 1 million miles, 15 yrs (electrek.co)

Started a thread on that article: https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...e-to-a-1-million-mile-15-year-lifespan.19007/

 

[shutterbug]

Slow charging compared to what? An 800v system with a small battery pack? Or to the vaporware Silverado EV, whose $75k base version is about as likely to make it to market as the original $39k F150 Lightning Pro?

Except that $39K Lightning did appear, if only in limited numbers.

 

[Ventorum94]

@Ford Motor Company can thank Jim “Adam Osbourne” Farley…

Yes slow charging and a too small battery did not help the cause, but those are easy fixes given the work already completed on the next generation EVs.

Rant Over!

Except that $39K Lightning did appear, if only in limited numbers.

Those were a gift from Ford, a token gesture to make good on an early promise that was not deliverable when true production costs materialized. No more basis in reality than a $75k 200kWh Silverado EV has.

 

[ctuan13]

https://media.ford.com/content/ford...next-gen-evs--readies-manufacturing-plan.html

Press Release:


Ford Updates EV, Hybrid Plans, Readies Manufacturing Plants

• Ford continues to invest in a broad set of EV programs as it works to build a full EV line-up. In parallel, Ford is expanding its hybrid electric vehicle offerings. By the end of the decade, the company expects to offer hybrid powertrains across its entire Ford Blue lineup in North America
• Equipment installation is underway at the Tennessee Electric Vehicle Center assembly plant at BlueOval City, which aims to begin customer deliveries of Ford’s next-generation electric truck in 2026
• Expansion progresses at Ohio Assembly Plant in Avon Lake, to produce an all-new electric commercial vehicle for Ford Pro customers beginning mid-decade; construction progressing at BlueOval Battery Park Michigan, and BlueOval SK joint venture battery plants in Tennessee and Kentucky
• Ford reiterates commitment to its Oakville, Ontario, assembly plant as the company retimes the launch of its all-new three-row electric vehicles to 2027
• Design work continues on future EVs, including a flexible small and affordable EV platform by a skunkworks team in California

DEARBORN, Mich., April 4, 2024 – Ford Motor Company said today it is retiming the launch of upcoming electric vehicles at its Oakville, Ontario, assembly plant while continuing to build out an advanced industrial system to produce its next-generation electric vehicles, including greenfield construction and conversion of existing assembly plants.

The company continues to invest in a broad set of EV programs as it works to build a full EV line-up. These initiatives support the development of a differentiated and profitably growing EV business over time while Ford serves customers with the right mix of gas, hybrid and electric vehicles based on demand today. In parallel, Ford is expanding its hybrid electric vehicle offerings. By the end of the decade, the company expects to offer hybrid powertrains across its entire Ford Blue lineup in North America. In the first quarter of 2024, Ford’s electric vehicle sales increased by 86% and hybrid sales rose 42% versus a year ago.

“As the No. 2 EV brand in the U.S. for the past two years, we are committed to scaling a profitable EV business, using capital wisely and bringing to market the right gas, hybrid and fully electric vehicles at the right time,” said Jim Farley, Ford president and CEO. “Our breakthrough, next-generation EVs will be new from the ground up and fully software enabled, with ever-improving digital experiences and a multitude of potential services.”

Assembly plant in Oakville, Ontario

The transformation of Oakville Assembly Plant – a comprehensive overhaul of the plant from a gas vehicle assembly plant into an EV manufacturing complex – is set to begin in the second quarter, as planned.

Preparations continue for the market launch of Ford’s all-new three-row electric vehicles at the assembly complex in Oakville, Ontario, which the company said it will re-time to 2027 from 2025. The additional time will allow for the consumer market for three-row EVs to further develop and enable Ford to take advantage of emerging battery technology, with the goal to provide customers increased durability and better value.

“We value our Canadian teammates and appreciate that this delay will have an impact on this excellent team,” Farley said. “We are fully committed to manufacturing in Canada and believe this decision will help us build a profitably growing business for the long term.”

The company will work with Unifor to mitigate the impact the launch delay will have on its workforce at Oakville.

“We are committed to taking care of our valued Oakville employees through this transition,” said Bev Goodman, president and CEO, Ford Canada. “While this change requires a revision to the timeline, it will support a viable and growing future for our company, employees and dealers.”

BlueOval City

The creation of the BlueOval City campus – Ford’s new advanced auto production complex that includes the Tennessee Electric Vehicle Center assembly plant – is progressing on track. In addition to paint shop and vehicle assembly equipment, installation is also underway for nearly 4,000 tons of stamping equipment that will produce the sheet metal stampings for Ford’s next all-new electric truck.

Ford plans to begin customer deliveries of the new truck in 2026 and gradually ramp up production to help assure quality. The Tennessee Electric Vehicle Center will be Ford’s first Industry 4.0 plant, combining automation and connectivity to help elevate quality and efficiency.

Prospective employees can meet with Ford representatives at the new Ford Tennessee Discovery Center in Brownsville, Tenn., once it opens. The plant’s management team brings together strong leaders from around the world, including Ford veterans and talent from Tesla, Amazon, Meta, Toyota, FedEx and more. Community members also will be welcome to experience advanced manufacturing through virtual reality simulations at the Discovery Center.

Ohio Assembly Plant

Additionally, Ford continues its expansion of Ohio Assembly Plant in Avon Lake to produce an all-new electric commercial vehicle for Ford Pro customers beginning mid-decade.

Half of the structural steel is erected on the site, interior slabs are being poured, concrete walls are going up and masonry is beginning on interior walls. Ford expects to begin tool installation at Ohio Assembly Plant in spring 2025.

Employees at the plant, like at other Ford manufacturing facilities, will use wearable technology to support high-quality and efficient manufacturing.

Future EVs

Design work continues on Ford’s future-generation EVs. A skunkworks team in California is developing a smaller, low-cost, profitable, flexible EV platform capable of underpinning multiple vehicles at high volumes. Alan Clarke leads the growing team, which includes personnel from Auto Motive Power (AMP) following Ford’s acquisition of the EV energy management startup in late 2023.

In the meantime, construction is progressing at BlueOval Battery Park Michigan, in Marshall, Mich., and at the BlueOval SK joint venture battery plants in Tennessee and Kentucky.

# # #

Disappointing but highly unsurprising.

 

[hturnerfamily]

Except that $39K Lightning did appear, if only in limited numbers.

Yes, I have one, and love it.
I also understand some frustrations that manifests themselves into statements that are not based in fact, though, like 'Ford only did the $39k Pro to lead people on...', or 'Ford limits the Pro to make people HAVE to get a higher trim model', etc...

the fact is, it is just BARELY possible that, actually, most Ford Lightning orders and buyers DID want higher trim level models, and therefore, Ford makes the most business sense by building only 'limited' number of Pros...

of course, the higher trims may be where more 'money' per vehicle is made, and that makes the most 'cents', especially more than simply agreeing to codify some who claim that the Pro is the ONLY model they should be pumping out every day... in order to somehow satisfy 'everyone'...

There may actually be less who want one than you might at first believe. There are certainly some of us who made our 'decisions' based on the original MSRP of the 'entry level' model, and might now be upset that it's not 'available', but many, many more have chosen to buy higher trim level models, even if that INCLUDES some of those who might have originally been drawn to the Pro's pricing...

Ford is not dumb. Ford also does not 'have' to do anything. They will make decisions based on the market, not on a few of us who sit behind laptops and phones and 'complain' how they do their business.

Ask GM... they are coming out with a STARTING price of close to, if not OVER, $100,000 for an EV Truck. While it may have more battery power, yes, that's REALLY a BIG ask for someone who simply wants an 'electric' truck - but, hey, what do I know(??)...maybe that IS the world we now live in.

It might also be GM 'reaching' for an audience that doesn't exist, or one that will in no way 'make money' for them... there does reach a point where $100k makes more sense in other places than in a vehicle.

The MARKET decides what happens, in the long run, it's not just the manufactures... if enough keep buying 'expensive' vehicle, they will continue building them - building lower-cost vehicles would then make little sense, although it might still seem sensible to 'us'...

 

[USA EV]

Slow charging compared to what? An 800v system with a small battery pack? Or to the vaporware Silverado EV, whose $75k base version is about as likely to make it to market as the original $39k F150 Lightning Pro? The couple of dozen Silverado EV prototypes (like the Hummer EV before them) circulating and greeted with wild enthusiasm by the automotive press (who obviously don’t mind being played like violins) are being accepted as examples of real production vehicles- which is all GM needs, to keep up appearances. Even if each Silverado EV prototype cost $1M to build, it’s a heck of a lot cheaper and less risky than actually being in the mass-produced EV truck business.
You describe a big battery as an easy fix, but I’m not sure about the market for a Lightning that cost $30k more (incl. loss of $7500 tax credit), even if it came with a 200kWh battery pack. At some point, don’t consumers decide not the pay $25k-$30k more for the extra range? (especially in light of Supercharger access) Or, is there more of a market for over-$100k trucks than I thought?
(one good rant deserves another)

I have been quite pleased with the SR battery for the lower price. Fits my needs quite well. I think it was a good target.

 

[ExCivilian]

the fact is, it is just BARELY possible that, actually, most Ford Lightning orders and buyers DID want higher trim level models, and therefore, Ford makes the most business sense by building only 'limited' number of Pros...

No, that's not what happened because every launch F150L was BTO.

Whatever we think regarding their reasons for limiting Pro production the fact remains they were deliberate.

 

[USA EV]

Yes, I have one, and love it.
I also understand some frustrations that manifests themselves into statements that are not based in fact, though, like 'Ford only did the $39k Pro to lead people on...', or 'Ford limits the Pro to make people HAVE to get a higher trim model', etc...

the fact is, it is just BARELY possible that, actually, most Ford Lightning orders and buyers DID want higher trim level models, and therefore, Ford makes the most business sense by building only 'limited' number of Pros...

of course, the higher trims may be where more 'money' per vehicle is made, and that makes the most 'cents', especially more than simply agreeing to codify some who claim that the Pro is the ONLY model they should be pumping out every day... in order to somehow satisfy 'everyone'...

There may actually be less who want one than you might at first believe. There are certainly some of us who made our 'decisions' based on the original MSRP of the 'entry level' model, and might now be upset that it's not 'available', but many, many more have chosen to buy higher trim level models, even if that INCLUDES some of those who might have originally been drawn to the Pro's pricing...

Ford is not dumb. Ford also does not 'have' to do anything. They will make decisions based on the market, not on a few of us who sit behind laptops and phones and 'complain' how they do their business.

Ask GM... they are coming out with a STARTING price of close to, if not OVER, $100,000 for an EV Truck. While it may have more battery power, yes, that's REALLY a BIG ask for someone who simply wants an 'electric' truck - but, hey, what do I know(??)...maybe that IS the world we now live in.

It might also be GM 'reaching' for an audience that doesn't exist, or one that will in no way 'make money' for them... there does reach a point where $100k makes more sense in other places than in a vehicle.

The MARKET decides what happens, in the long run, it's not just the manufactures... if enough keep buying 'expensive' vehicle, they will continue building them - building lower-cost vehicles would then make little sense, although it might still seem sensible to 'us'...

I think they could have sold 5 times the number of Pros just from the canceled reservations without impacting other trims. But they obviously weren't making money on them.

 

[shutterbug]

Those were a gift from Ford, a token gesture to make good on an early promise that was not deliverable when true production costs materialized. No more basis in reality than a $75k 200kWh Silverado EV has.

So where was the "token gesture" from GM or Tesla?

 

[shutterbug]

I also understand some frustrations that manifests themselves into statements that are not based in fact, though, like 'Ford only did the $39k Pro to lead people on...', or 'Ford limits the Pro to make people HAVE to get a higher trim model', etc...

Simple fact is that Ford ended up with limited number of all '22 trims. Since the Pro's ran out first, they probably could have sold more, but the didn't make enough to fully satisfy demand.

Also, need to keep in mind that many wanted higher trims simply because they wanted ER battery.

 

[mags]

The $15K jump for the LR XLT wasnt going to happen for me, and I waited a very long time for any SRs to show up at dealers. By the time I was ready to buy a few Pros appeared at local dealers too, and they sold fast. You could get a Pro, after tax incentives and advertised discounts, for $39,500 before haggling. These same dealers had Platinums that had been sitting for months. Anecdotal, but it seems the ~40k price point will move trucks.
How Ford makes money at that price point is fortunately above my pay grade.

 

[detansinn]

With the time that I spend up in Maine and New England, an LFP battery's cold weather performance just isn't going to cut it. That LFP battery chemistry is DOA for those of us in cold climates.

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