Big battery!

[SpaceEVDriver]

Knowing and experience the size of the ER battery are two different things!

I had put the Mustang on the (ChargePoint 48A actual, 60A circuit) charger last night because I like DW's car to be at the SoC it should be at. I figured the Lightning was fine with 85%. This morning we decided to run up to the Grand Canyon for our standard new-vehicle shake-down drive.

I ran out an switched the charger to the Lightning and told it to charge to 100%. It's been 27 minutes, the ChargePoint has delivered 4.7 kWh, butthe SoC has only gone up to 87%. Lots of warming of the battery after its overnight cold soak! Warming this battery and charging it is really going to be much nicer with the 80A charger!

Sponsored

 

[TaxmanHog]

That doesn't sound like what you should have gotten for a charging rate, it should have jumped up again to max capacity of the EVSE until around 95+ % then a taper would start slowing it down.

Does the "Chargepoint" EVSE have a independent TOU scheduler?

Try adjusting your default charging profile, or use the Fordpass app to click the "Charge to 100" button, it sounds like you used the Sync menu charging screen with the adjustable temporary charge to limiter, bumping that to 100%, seems the truck did not honor the request using that method

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

That doesn't sound like what you should have gotten for a charging rate, it should have jumped up again to max capacity of the EVSE until around 95+ % then a taper would start slowing it down.

Does the "Chargepoint" EVSE have a independent TOU scheduler?

Try adjusting your default charging profile, or use the Fordpass app to click the "Charge to 100" button, it sounds like you used the Sync menu charging screen with the adjustable temporary charge to limiter, bumping that to 100%, seems the truck did not honor the request using that method

The truck was getting the full 11 kW. It spent a fair amount of that warming up the battery instead of charging. It still gained the right amount of miles given the current efficiency numbers.

 

[RickLightning]

4.7 / 27/60 = 10.45kW. Seems like it didn't warm anything and is running at full tilt.

To go from 85 to 100%, not including when it balances at the end and then charges the 12v, would be roughly:

131 x .15 / 10.4 = 1.9 hours.

 

[DenverDan]

Just installed my 80 AMP charger and it is amazing. Charges at 16kw/hr! Less than 9 hours from 0 to full at home!

 

[TaxmanHog]

The truck was getting the full 11 kW.

4.7 kWh / 27 min * 60 min = mean of 10.45kWh

131 kWh * .15 rise of SOC = 19.65 kWh

19.65 / 10.45 = 1 hr and 53 min charge time assuming zero losses due to energy conversion AC->DC or PTC warming, IMHO you probably lost mostly to the conversion process than the heating process.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

As I said above, the truck gained about 2% SoC, according to its report both on the screen and in Ford Pass.

Nominally, 2% of 131 kWh =~ 2.6 kWh.

ChargePoint delivered 4.7 kWh of energy, according to the ChargePoint app (and this agrees with the simple math of 27 minutes at 10.5 kW = 4.7 kWh of energy).

If these are both true, then the transfer from the EVSE to the battery was about 55% efficient, which indicates around a 45% loss to something.

Typical conversion+line losses on 240 Volt, 48A service is closer to 5% to 10%, maybe 15%, but certainly not as high as 45%.

My weather station indicates it got down to around 0 ºC last night.

I think it's reasonable to conclude that the battery was cold enough that the truck warmed it a bit before it started charging.

Unfortunately I did not plug in my OBD-2 logger, so I don't know what the thermal system was really doing.

 

[RickLightning]

As I said above, the truck gained about 2% SoC, according to its report both on the screen and in Ford Pass.

Nominally, 2% of 131 kWh =~ 2.6 kWh.

ChargePoint delivered 4.7 kWh of energy, according to the ChargePoint app (and this agrees with the simple math of 27 minutes at 10.5 kW = 4.7 kWh of energy).

If these are both true, then the transfer from the EVSE to the battery was about 55% efficient, which indicates around a 45% loss to something.

Typical conversion+line losses on 240 Volt, 48A service is closer to 5% to 10%, maybe 15%, but certainly not as high as 45%.

My weather station indicates it got down to around 0 ºC last night.

I think it's reasonable to conclude that the battery was cold enough that the truck warmed it a bit before it started charging.

Unfortunately I did not plug in my OBD-2 logger, so I don't know what the thermal system was really doing.

At 48amp charger at 240v produces 11.5kW at the wall. Your 10.45 is right on with loss. I have a 7% loss.

If you hooked CarScanner up before you started charging, you would not see 131kW x 85% = 111.35. You would see around say 103 or so cold. Then, as the battery warms during charging, more kilowatts are available.

Before a trip last month, I was at 89% and charged to 100% for the trip. 131 x 11% would be 14.4 kW. Charger sent 25.37. With my 7% loss, that's 23.6kW. Where did the 9.2kW go?

Someone way smarter than me on this stuff said:

"When you charge to 100% there is hidden capacity used because that's the only time the charger operates in constant voltage mode. The cells will take a little bit extra charge. So you can't really compare charging to 100% with other times that terminate less than 100%.

The math won't work out because there's uncertainty at the top and bottom of the packs due to accumulated errors over time. If you regularly charged to 100% then the error would probably be less, so you'd use less kWh on subsequent charge cycles."

I noted that at 100% charge, I only had 124.1kW. Battery was 59 degrees. Optimum is 77. At 84 degrees I saw 127.4. Later in the trip, at 52 degrees I saw 124 again. At 62.6 I saw 125.9. My SOH was 99.5%, then 100%, then 98.5%.

So math becomes near impossible to work out exactly.

 

[TaxmanHog]

If your battery was actually cold soaked around 32° f the PTC would have diverted 8-9 KW for about 15 to 45 minutes, with the 2-3 KW remainder going to charging, the warming rate will step down in ~2 KW increments and hover if maintenance temp is required while the charging energy ramps up.

Also take note that the Fordpass needs an occasional pull-down to refresh a data sample, it's not always automatic.

Then throw in the facts that Rick speaks about where energy to top-off and level the 100% value on the battery skew everything.

 

[edcoble]

Just installed my 80 AMP charger and it is amazing. Charges at 16kw/hr! Less than 9 hours from 0 to full at home!

I love ours too.

 

[GoodSam]

I firmly believe that charging to 100% on AC is completely fine to do, even on a semi-regular basis. The idea that the battery will degrade by charging it once and a while to 100% is absurd and I have never read a single study/anecdote which has demonstrated that charging a car battery to 100% harms it to a noticeable degree.

Check out this lithium ion expert, Dr. Jeff Dahn, on his recommendation to avoid going over 75% charge for lithium ion, NMC, batteries:

Try to find his charts on battery life based on maximum charge rates. It can make a big difference if you are interested in extending battery life. It involves the expansion of the battery pack at high charges which stresses them. But with my SR battery, I currently charge to 85% just to have more range or house backup capability. Small charges are also better for the battery than using longer charges if not necessary. Plug in often. My battery health last showed SOH of 100% over 8K miles, ~1.5 years since built/owned, and I have charged to 100% at least 5 times for trips or because Ford Nav location screws up my home location. First 5 months were mostly fast charges, but now mostly home 40A charges.

 

[invertedspear]

My weather station indicates it got down to around 0 ºC last night.

Northern and Southern AZ have such amazingly different climate. In Phoenix we're going to deal with our first 100F day of the year this week. My efficiency when running around town lately is about 2.9 m/kWh. Perfect EV conditions. But just an hourish north of here (and a mile of elevation gain mind you), and you're dealing with freeze and cold soaked batteries.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Northern and Southern AZ have such amazingly different climate. In Phoenix we're going to deal with our first 100F day of the year this week. My efficiency when running around town lately is about 2.9 m/kWh. Perfect EV conditions. But just an hourish north of here (and a mile of elevation gain mind you), and you're dealing with freeze and cold soaked batteries.

We're finally getting some warm weather! I think/hope our last freeze is this week. We got down to freezing last night, but just barely.

Sponsored