100%/75%/50%/25% Depth of Charge Graph for NMC Batteries

[Helium]

Several people have asked me about my charging habits on my high mileage Lightning. I did not realize it when I was doing it (I was doing it out of necessity), but I was actually complying with the recommendations derived from the below chart taken from the linked video. Though I don't think anyone on here will be surprised by the gathered evidence (yeah I know that evidence\research needs to be rigorously verified by others...), I do hope it informs your decisions.

I hope I return here in 2054 to celebrate my 1.6 million mile battery...how many sets of shocks, ball joints, tires, brake pads, seat upholstery, paint jobs is that going to be...

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[Helium]

Here is a summary slide, from the above video, that spells it out very cleanly:

 

[sotek2345]

Here is a summary slide, from the above video, that spells it out very cleanly:

Aren't we are 95% Ni content in our batteries?

 

[TaxmanHog]

An 8-page discussion about running the battery to zero, but lots of facts and opinions.
Running the Battery to 0%

 

[Helium]

Aren't we are 95% Ni content in our batteries?

From what I have seen looking around the internet, though I can't find anything difinitive, I BELIEVE they are NMC94 batteries.

 

[Joe.....Montana]

My takeaway...if I'm going to hit that <70% battery warranty within 8 years I need to be roddin' like a hot dog and going 100% to 0% non stop for the next 7 years....

 

[Helium]

My takeaway...if I'm going to hit that <70% battery warranty within 8 years I need to be roddin' like a hot dog and going 100% to 0% non stop for the next 7 years....

Probably. I'm still not absolutely sure how much nickel we have in the battery. The last paragraph in the last slide I posted above indicates the single crystal positives with less than 70% nickel are worry free, but I'm pretty certain Lightning batteries have the something like 90% or 94% nickel. Still looking for an authoritative source on this.

 

[Helium]

Aren't we are 95% Ni content in our batteries?

I just found this post by @MickeyAO where he states he pulled a SK One E805A battery out of an actual F150 Lightning.

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/running-the-battery-to-0.18974/post-381114

 

[TaxmanHog]

Still looking for an authoritative source on this

2022 Ford F-150 Lightning's Battery Tech Uses Less Rare Metal (motortrend.com)

SK On Pushes Smart Battery Manufacturing Forward (batterytechonline.com)

Ford F-150 Lightning Will Get a Serious Battery Upgrade, NMC9+ Cells To Debut at CES 2023 - auto evolution

 

[Helium]

2022 Ford F-150 Lightning's Battery Tech Uses Less Rare Metal (motortrend.com)

SK On Pushes Smart Battery Manufacturing Forward (batterytechonline.com)

Ford F-150 Lightning Will Get a Serious Battery Upgrade, NMC9+ Cells To Debut at CES 2023 - auto evolution

Well according to these articles my very early run 2022 Lightning should have NCM9 battery in it.

Very much appreciated.

 

[MickeyAO]

From what I have seen looking around the internet, though I can't find anything difinitive, I BELIEVE they are NMC94 batteries.

94? 130%? Where did you see that number? And avoid it in the future. When listing chemistry, the numbers should equal 10, which is 100%. If you have a cell with 90% nickel and still has manganese and cobalt, you will have a 9.5.5

I really don't remember what the SKE805A is, and I really don't feel like looking it up tonight, but I'm pretty sure it is either 811 or 9.5.5

 

[Helium]

94? 130%? Where did you see that number? And avoid it in the future. When listing chemistry, the numbers should equal 10, which is 100%. If you have a cell with 90% nickel and still has manganese and cobalt, you will have a 9.5.5

I really don't remember what the SKE805A is, and I really don't feel like looking it up tonight, but I'm pretty sure it is either 811 or 9.5.5

Here is a screenshot from the video above that references a Ni94 battery. The video link below goes directly to the chart in the video:

Here's paper, there are a handful of others. I should have dropped a link into the original post above with the news article that had NCM94 in it:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1385894721056060

another
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2095495621000802
" Based on the analysis of boron-doping and coating strategy on LiNi 0.94 Co 0.03 Mn 0.03 O 2 (NCM94) shown in Fig. 9, it can also be discovered that adopting B modification can significantly suppress H2-H3 phase transition by virtue of the stronger B-O bond, which stabilizes the TM-O slabs as well as the ionic-conductor coating (BPO 4). "

https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2022ChEnJ.43134031G/abstract


As far as the '130%", I'm not certain where I would have used such a number in relation to batteries or the lightning. Search the page, but I may be just to tired to see it.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

As far as the '130%", I'm not certain where I would have used such a number in relation to batteries or the lightning. Search the page, but I may be just to tired to see it.

That comes from 9+4 = 13 => 130%.

A common (but unfortunately not universal) naming scheme for NCM is to append numbers related to the stoichiometry of the Ni, Co, and Mn. So one reading of NCM94 can be that it's 90% Ni, 40% Co+Mn, thus 130% of the possible 100%.

However, the actual chemistry of that particular battery is LiNi0.94Co0.055Mn0.005O2 (94% Ni, 5.5% Co, 0.5% Mn), so the authors of the paper seem to be using a different naming convention.

 

[IdeaOfTheDayCom]

...
I hope I return here in 2054 to celebrate my 1.6 million mile battery...how many sets of shocks, ball joints, tires, brake pads, seat upholstery, paint jobs is that going to be...
...

Great info.

What excites me most about EVs is that although most of the the focus is on how long the battery will last, the reality is that they'll not only last a very long time, but they're also easily swapped.

Even if your battery doesn't reach the 1.6 million mile goal, it's possible that at some point there may even be improvements to battery tech that can be swapped.

I'm sure by 2054 there will still be a market for classic cars and trucks and we'll see people restoring older EVs by swapping batteries for the latest tech, and at a much lower cost. Who knows, by then we'll see EVs running off solid state graphene or even salt water based batteries.

 

[Helium]

That comes from 9+4 = 13 => 130%.

A common (but unfortunately not universal) naming scheme for NCM is to append numbers related to the stoichiometry of the Ni, Co, and Mn. So one reading of NCM94 can be that it's 90% Ni, 40% Co+Mn, thus 130% of the possible 100%.

However, the actual chemistry of that particular battery is LiNi0.94Co0.055Mn0.005O2 (94% Ni, 5.5% Co, 0.5% Mn), so the authors of the paper seem to be using a different naming convention.

Thank you for the explanation! (Starting my day off with a little dopamine hit is a good way to start the day! )

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