Motortrend Rivian R1T First Drive

[MickeyAO]

So this is probably a separate discussion, but it seems most all manufacturers are building a buffer into the battery pack. You see a lot of specs stating X kWh total with X kWh usable.
With that in mind, when the vehicle itself shows a charge of 100% that isnt really 100% soc for the battery pack, it's maybe only 90%. And if this is the case one would imagine that you could do the math and figure out that charging to 85 or 90 indicated is actually 80% of the total pack capacity.

Maybe I'm just way off here, but I was thinking that was the intention behind building so much excess capacity into the pack. So you could charge to 100% indicated and be actually going to a lower soc and doing less damage to the cells.

You are correct. If you know the number of cells and the configuration of the pack, you can calculate the actual capacity of the pack.

Using a previous SK Innovation pack (kind of narrows the field) I have tested as an example, I calculated that the manufacturer was derating the pack by about 50% of actual capacity. That information along with a couple of items I discovered inside the pack lead me to believe that they were scared of the cells. Several years later when they released the updated model of the vehicle, the range almost doubled with no changes to the pack configuration.

Sponsored

 

[greenne]

You are correct. If you know the number of cells and the configuration of the pack, you can calculate the actual capacity of the pack.

Using a previous SK Innovation pack (kind of narrows the field) I have tested as an example, I calculated that the manufacturer was derating the pack by about 50% of actual capacity. That information along with a couple of items I discovered inside the pack lead me to believe that they were scared of the cells. Several years later when they released the updated model of the vehicle, the range almost doubled with no changes to the pack configuration.

Food for thought, Ford recently said that the 2022, 2023, and 2024 Mach E would all be getting more range. I do not think they are changing the battery packs. I assume there are probably some drivability changes, but I wonder if Ford is shrinking the safety "buffer". Knowing how Ford has been very cautious to avoid a Bolt type incident..I wonder if they played it safe for the first model year in the amount of usable battery.

 

[MickeyAO]

Food for thought, Ford recently said that the 2022, 2023, and 2024 Mach E would all be getting more range. I do not think they are changing the battery packs. I assume there are probably some drivability changes, but I wonder if Ford is shrinking the safety "buffer". Knowing how Ford has been very cautious to avoid a Bolt type incident..I wonder if they played it safe for the first model year in the amount of usable battery.

Think changes to the Battery Management System (BMS) as was the case of the SK Innovations pack I previously mentioned.

 

[Sapphire]

Thanks, @MickeyAO . So, the takeaways are 1) a lease is looking a lot better, and 2) I should continue charging my BEV motorcycle off the regular 110 outlet. You’re also ruining my rips on Ford for not handling charge rates beyond 150kW, and ICE being more of a hassle. I appreciate having the info! I also feel like the decision between leasing a Lightning or just buying that 2021 Platinum F-150 that’s on a lot 13 miles from here is a much closer call. Either is good.

 

[F150ROD]

Nice! The EV Honda Ridgeline

 

[vandy1981]

Nice! The EV Honda Ridgeline

From a mechanical standpoint, it's more like an Ranger Limited EV. It's a body-on-frame (skateboard) vehicle and has towing/payload capacities that meet or exceed the F150L LR. You can even lie a sheet of plywood flat in the bed.

I can't argue with you from a styling standpoint, but I think it looks more like a pickup version of the current-gen Land Rover Defender.

 

[F150ROD]

From a mechanical standpoint, it's more like an Ranger Limited EV. It's a body-on-frame (skateboard) vehicle and has towing/payload capacities that meet or exceed the F150L LR. You can even lie a sheet of plywood flat in the bed.

I can't argue with you from a styling standpoint, but I think it looks more like a pickup version of the current-gen Land Rover Defender.

Oh I meant in a good way, meaning the interior looks comfortable and the suspension must also be luxury like.

 

[astricklin]

To be back on topic... looking at the Rivian I'd be into it for $80k ish..I don't even know if I can convince my wife that $60k is a price to pay for a vehicle.
It also sounds like it will be extremely expensive to repair if you ever have to do any work on the air/hydraulic suspension system.

 

[RonTCat]

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=44462&id=44461

Not as high as I thought it would be, but not bad.

 

[Mcfly]

Rivan and the lightning are not that far apart in pricing. If you spec the lighting with the max pack and options it's going to be just as pricey if not more. And both will have the same range. I would argue you get more for your money with the rivian. Not official but most people think the xlt with max pack will be around 60k. I have reservations for both but will probably get the rivian unless I'm more than a year out.

 

[sotek2345]

Rivan and the lightning are not that far apart in pricing. If you spec the lighting with the max pack and options it's going to be just as pricey if not more. And both will have the same range. I would argue you get more for your money with the rivian. Not official but most people think the xlt with max pack will be around 60k. I have reservations for both but will probably get the rivian unless I'm more than a year out.

Depends what you are measuring. Rivian gives more performance, especially off road performance. Lightning gives more interior volume and cargo space (by a lot).

 

[Mcfly]

Depends what you are measuring. Rivian gives more performance, especially off road performance. Lightning gives more interior volume and cargo space (by a lot).

Agreed, if you need a full size truck the lighting is the winner. Also if your buying the pro trim it's clearly the better value.

 

[FtS]

Depends what you are measuring. Rivian gives more performance, especially off road performance. Lightning gives more interior volume and cargo space (by a lot).

Although we really don't have evidence that Rivian performs better off-road, let's make that assumption as it has far better potential. What do you use that performance for if you do not have enough interior and rear volume? If you are not after the utility, usable space and bed volume, why even purchase a truck? Rivian as a SUV does make sense on paper though, probably will be a great daily driver, city crawler, but off-road!? Questionable at best.

 

[astricklin]

Most people have no intention of ever driving off-road. The people who do typically have vehicles way more capable than anything they ever tackle. Look at jeeps, a base $35k wrangler is massively capable but people think they need a Rubicon with a lift and giant tires to spend 90% of their time commuting.

 

[Sapphire]

I fully plan to go off-road that one time to reminisce over for years. ?

Sponsored