Announcing: Tesla Superchargers + Connected Navigation

[PrimeRisk]

If they start charging a subscription in order for me to view my cameras. My truck will be up for sale and I’ll never buy another ford.
I’m worried that “glitch” means they are considering it…

This flies in the face of what I feel we were lead to believe about getting OTA updates that would increase our vehicles functionality over time.

Yeah, the "glitch" as you describe it is exactly where I think they're going. Seeing if we will tolerate being nickeled and dimed for subscriptions. Not sure why they think this will go over well. BMW tried it with subscription charges for heated seats and Tesla tried with a one-time fee to enable heated seats, both were PR catastrophes and they ended up abandoning the practice.

There are cases where this is perfectly fine. Tesla had cars that they installed with larger batteries, but sold at a lower cost with nerfed range. For Tesla, it was a cost decision to reduce manufacturing complexity. They put the same 75kWh battery pack in all of the models for build and sourcing efficiency, then software locked the lower model to 60kWh and sold them at a lower price. If you later wanted access to the increased capacity, then you paid for it. You did get something that you hadn't already paid for. They only did this for a short time until they eliminated the 60kWh level model completely, but they did get some notoriety by enabling this extra capacity for free to everyone in Florida during a hurricane evacuation.

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[PrimeRisk]

yup I called the EV team and got it squared away.

That is great! So it was just accidentally not activated on their end?

 

[chapba]

That is great! So it was just accidentally not activated on their end?

lol I was trying to not look like a dumba$$ but it wasn’t turned on by default and I failed to look at the settings. My mache was on by default so I assumed it should be on but yeah just a failure on my end to not look at the settings

 

[PrimeRisk]

lol I was trying to not look like a dumba$$ but it wasn’t turned on by default and I failed to look at the settings. My mache was on by default so I assumed it should be on but yeah just a failure on my end to not look at the settings

Oh, no worries! Frankly I hate it when in an HMI it detects that you want to do something that you don't have enabled and it doesn't:

A) Offer the option to enable it right then and there or
B) Present a button taking you to the place in the menu with the setting or
C) At least give you brief instructions on how to go to the setting to enable it.

It's just poor UX design.

 

[chapba]

Oh, no worries! Frankly I hate it when in an HMI it detects that you want to do something that you don't have enabled and it doesn't:

A) Offer the option to enable it right then and there or
B) Present a button taking you to the place in the menu with the setting or
C) At least give you brief instructions on how to go to the setting to enable it.

It's just poor UX design.

Well I’m pretty tech savvy and would usually go through all settings prior to complaining but I failed at believing it was on by default. The EV team did mention that it’s supposed to be on by default and after reading some comments it seems like I’m not the only one. I don’t really use it but have before for pre-conditioning prior to charging. The user interface definitely needs work but that drum has been beaten to death lol

 

[Firn]

Yeah, the "glitch" as you describe it is exactly where I think they're going. Seeing if we will tolerate being nickeled and dimed for subscriptions. Not sure why they think this will go over well. BMW tried it with subscription charges for heated seats and Tesla tried with a one-time fee to enable heated seats, both were PR catastrophes and they ended up abandoning the practice.

There are cases where this is perfectly fine. Tesla had cars that they installed with larger batteries, but sold at a lower cost with nerfed range. For Tesla, it was a cost decision to reduce manufacturing complexity. They put the same 75kWh battery pack in all of the models for build and sourcing efficiency, then software locked the lower model to 60kWh and sold them at a lower price. If you later wanted access to the increased capacity, then you paid for it. You did get something that you hadn't already paid for. They only did this for a short time until they eliminated the 60kWh level model completely, but they did get some notoriety by enabling this extra capacity for free to everyone in Florida during a hurricane evacuation.

The one time fee is at least reasonable intervals some cases, specifically as it relates to manufacturing.

It's cheaper to make it without the heated seats. But the logistics of having two different parts may be more expensive than just giving every car the part. That is still more expensive than no heated seat, but now when some owners buy it you get that cost back. And if the first owner didn't buy it you can sell it to the second, with two parts it's on from the factory or nobody can buy it.

Subscription is stupid

 

[jetfixr1]

Ford can pry my 360 camera from my dead cold hands. I understand paying a subscription for something like BC, which actually requires work and staff to constantly update and improve. 360 degree camera? It already comes with the truck and there's no substantial update to improve functionality. Fuck that. That will be the day my next vehicle will be a Rivian or Chevy.

 

[Oafy44]

Judging by fords glitches on the website I bet it’s probably just that. Ford doesn’t even charge for their FordPass so I think they would charge for that before they charge for cameras

I would pay $10 a month right now for a properly heated steering wheel tho.

 

[PrimeRisk]

The one time fee is at least reasonable intervals some cases, specifically as it relates to manufacturing.

It's cheaper to make it without the heated seats. But the logistics of having two different parts may be more expensive than just giving every car the part. That is still more expensive than no heated seat, but now when some owners buy it you get that cost back. And if the first owner didn't buy it you can sell it to the second, with two parts it's on from the factory or nobody can buy it.

Subscription is stupid

I agree, the one-time payment I'm ok with, similar to the Tesla battery capacity example. I am very anti-subscription for anything like this. There is no way that a 360 camera system is deserving of a subscription, but clearly from the screenshot I provided, Ford gave 2023 Mach-E 90-day trials with the option to purchase it, so whether it's a 1-time purchase or a subscription is unclear.

Of course the backlash from BMW was so bad that it led to publicly known hacks where for about the cost of 1 month of subscription, you could purchase the ODBII dongle and just enable it yourself. These were not connected cars, so BMW wouldn't ever be able to tell.

 

[PrimeRisk]

Judging by fords glitches on the website I bet it’s probably just that. Ford doesn’t even charge for their FordPass so I think they would charge for that before they charge for cameras

I would pay $10 a month right now for a properly heated steering wheel tho.

Someone at Ford wrote that language and description. Maybe they made a mistake showing it in my Connected Services tab for my Lightning, but it's clearly something they have been thinking about and doing for at least those 2023 Mach-Es.

 

[Maineiac12]

Charging for the 360 camera was a real thing on the Mach-e. Ford wanted $500 to “unlock” it but eventually backed down after lots of bad press.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/just-got-the-360-degree-camera-for-free.28132/

I remember the option showing up on the 2024 F-150 build and price site for a short time before it got taken down.

As a general rule, I don’t like subscription services. Sometimes they make sense if it’s a continuous update thing that provides ongoing value…. But it’s never OK to pay extra to unlock equipment already installed on the car you’re supposed to own.

 

[PrimeRisk]

Judging by fords glitches on the website I bet it’s probably just that. Ford doesn’t even charge for their FordPass so I think they would charge for that before they charge for cameras

I would pay $10 a month right now for a properly heated steering wheel tho.

Tesla and Nissan don't charge, but GM, BMW, and Toyota do, so the industry is somewhat split. I don't believe for a minute that Ford will not move key remote features from the app to a paid model. I keep trying to figure out what Premium Connectivity is really going to encompass and I've tried to get Ford to tell me. They say it is only for streaming video and audio in the native SYNC apps, but when I asked if the other connected features (BlueCruise, Alexa, and Connected Nav) required paying for Premium Connectivity to function, they got really mealy-mouthed. They refused to confirm or deny that these other paid-for subscriptions would work without paying for Premium Connectivity.

Edit: Today I noticed that the language for Premium Connectivity in the app has changed and it now states that Alexa is dependent on Premium Connectivity.

From October 2024:

From today:

There you have it. Ford has changed the deal, pray they do not change it further.

Considering all of Ford's recent cash-grab moves, I expect that PAAK will continue to work as it requires no network connectivity to function, but if you don't pay for Premium Connectivity, they're going to shutdown your onboard modem's service as this is an ongoing cost to them. Then nothing else will work from the app unless you are within Bluetooth range and then they'll likely limit you to charge functions and lock/unlock only. To that point, I am getting something on an ongoing basis, so if they want to charge a nominal fee for remote features, I don't believe it is unreasonable, but it should be clear in the purchase process what features require subscription to operate.

I get that they are losing money on every truck sold, but if they want more sales so they can reach profitability at scale, they need to stop f*cking over us early adopters. Tesla figured this out really early on. The very early adopters still have lifetime free charging and premium connectivity. Tesla will never take it away because that is the commitment they made and the word of mouth good will is worth more than the continuing costs.

Another example is that I have a '21 Model Y with the v3 hardware that I purchased lifetime FSD on. Tesla has recently hit the software development wall on v3 hardware. There is just not enough processing capacity in my car to handle the new FSD stack. I'm stuck on v12 of FSD and the v4 hardware Teslas are on v13 with v14 being released soon (Tesla "soon", not Ford "soon"). I will need a computer upgrade to continue to get more features. The cost of this upgrade is expected to be in the $3k range, but I won't have to pay it because Tesla is standing behind their customers that paid for Lifetime FSD, so I will get that $3k upgrade for free sometime. Amplifying this issue is the fact that you can't drop the existing v4 hardware into the older Teslas. The v4 hardware form factor is won't fit where the v3 is and the wiring harness cannot supply enough current to meet the demands of the v4 hardware. Tesla is having to design a completely new v4 hardware package for the v3 platform cars. It is going to cost Tesla billions, but they will make it back plus much more by not f*cking over their existing user base. Why am I confident about this? Because they have already done it upgrading the computers in older generations, completely for free.

I suspect Ford is facing the same issue with BlueCruise and why we're seeing the slow-play on rolling out new versions and improved features. They went cheap on the processing power and/or memory like Tesla did. Now the software is going to need more, but the difference is Ford will charge us for the upgrade if they ever make it available to us at all.

 

[PrimeRisk]

Charging for the 360 camera was a real thing on the Mach-e. Ford wanted $500 to “unlock” it but eventually backed down after lots of bad press.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/just-got-the-360-degree-camera-for-free.28132/

I remember the option showing up on the 2024 F-150 build and price site for a short time before it got taken down.

As a general rule, I don’t like subscription services. Sometimes they make sense if it’s a continuous update thing that provides ongoing value…. But it’s never OK to pay extra to unlock equipment already installed on the car you’re supposed to own.

Thanks for digging up that link. It is weird that the option showed up in my Connected Services tab yesterday. I looked again this morning and it is now just an empty blue box.

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