Being asked to stop and chat about the Lightning

[cvalue13]

may not make it “convincing,” but it has the advantage of squaring with reality

I already said: your facts are true; they simply aren’t the full list of true facts

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[vandy1981]

Obviously you thought a reservation meant something that it did not. Its was really up to Ford to interpret how to best execute, balancing the needs of mass production and the issue of fairness.

True, Ford has to deal with the realities imposed by CARB/ZEV regulations and the fact that some dealers have higher sales volumes. I'm not sure how that would apply to reprioritization within a dealership, though.

I understand the impulse to reward loyal customers by allowing reprioritization, but I think it ended up being a mistake that garnered weeks of negative press about dealers selling priority slots that still pops up today.

 

[greenne]

True, Ford has to deal with the realities imposed by CARB/ZEV regulations and the fact that some dealers have higher sales volumes. I'm not sure how that would apply to reprioritization within a dealership, though.

I understand the impulse to reward loyal customers by allowing reprioritization, but I think it ended up being a mistake that garnered weeks of negative press about dealers selling priority slots that still pops up today.

I'm not debating whether its right or wrong to prioritize "loyal" customers at the dealer level, but I think maybe Ford realized it was going to happen anyway so they structured it a bit rather than it be a free for all. (Kind of like a compromise).

The dealership model back them into a corner as far as who the dealer can sell to whom and in what order. It wasn't the best solution, but perhaps it prevented more chaos like they had with the Bronco.

I think they will fully refine the process with the splitting off of EV section of Ford Blue vs Ford Model-E. I think in the future Model E purchases will be made primarily to customer with the dealer serving as a delivery mechanism--set pricing. Ford Blue will be more old school where the dealer calls more of the shots. Its a step for some direct sales without starting over from square one.

Some people aren't going to be happy..I get that. But the alternative could have been worse...

My guess is the prioritization was less about rewarding loyal customers and more about easing dealers into the new reality of their role moving forward. (Dealer becomes more of a contracted delivery mechanism vs a sales function)

 

[vandy1981]

My guess is the prioritization was less about rewarding loyal customers and more about easing dealers into the new reality of their role moving forward. (Dealer becomes more of a contracted delivery mechanism vs a sales function)

100% agree and I hope that we end up with that model.

Reprioritzation probably would have been fine from a PR standpoint if a half dozen dealers hadn't played games with the option (e.g. sending email blasts that were essentially selling priority slots to the highest bidder). That said, I hope they don't allow it again in the future because it's a bad look.

 

[FlasherZ]

Meh - it is what it is. I experienced it with Tesla, I experienced it here. Even if they did invite people to order in strict reservation priority, there'd be complaints about Ford's need to prioritize for supply chain limitations, batching, manufacturing efficiency, etc.

Ford was clear about everything up front: a reservation didn't guarantee you the ability to order or receive a truck in any particular timeframe at any particular price. You can argue that there was some type of implied expectation of fairness or queueing or whatever, but Ford was clear that your business relationship was with the dealer and that Ford just helped to facilitate the interest on behalf of dealers, who are Ford's customers. I don't recall any promises other than you registering your interest with a token refundable deposit, which went straight to the dealer you chose.

Now, can we get back to the fun part? We used to call the extra time required to talk to people about the Model S as "Tesla Time"... I suppose we can just use "Lightning Time" to talk about the truck.

Guy came up to me last week and said "I see your hood's open, need some help?" He didn't see me loading 6 cases of soda into the frunk.

 

[cvalue13]

Some people aren't going to be happy..I get that. But the alternative could have been worse...

if we consider that dealerships are included in the category of relevant “people,” it means you can’t satisfy everyone.

here’s an example of the outcome of an alternative:

~Two years ago Omega released a special model of the Speedmaster, limited in production numbers. Unlike with any prior releases, Bienne (Omega headquarters) decided to directly allocate watches to customers based on Bienne’s own view of priorities, making the dealerships mere shipping pick-up depots of watches that arrived with the name of a customer on them. This arrangement resulted in two significant negative consequences:

(1) Omega dealers were unable to satisfy the orders of their most loyal (profitable) customers, making the dealers very unhappy with Omega

(2) a specific dealer’s most loyal (profitable) customers, were unable to purchase something they wanted, making these priority customers very unhappy with both the dealers and Omega

So in this scenario and strategy, you still garner not only bad press, etc., but also the sub-set of “customers” made unhappy happen to be almost all your most important customers (the dealers and the priority customers of those dealers).

Coming back to Ford, appreciating this possible outcome, they didn’t make Omega’s mistake, choosing what they estimated to be the lesser impactful of two outcomes, only one of which was could be avoided. Either strategy had outcomes that could be fairly labeled as “unfair,” and so the question becomes which sort of “unfair” results in the least negative consequences

And so Ford said, “players take turns going clockwise around the supper table, unless the game master says otherwise” - and they were abundantly clear from the beginning that these were the rules of the game.

Everyone with a reservation had to “read” and agree on these rules of the game:

“
Reservation. You may be able to configure a Ford vehicle (the “Vehicle”) through the Reservation Process (“Reservation”). By completing the Reservation Process, you are not ordering or purchasing a vehicle. The Reservation Process allows you to configure a Vehicle and pay the Reservation Deposit (“Reservation Deposit”) to an authorized Ford or Lincoln dealer (collectively “Dealer”) you select. Participation in the Program does not guarantee you vehicle delivery. You must contact a Dealer to discuss final transaction pricing, arrange any necessary financing, and complete your purchase of the Vehicle. Your Reservation does not guarantee a set price for the Vehicle. The Dealer sets the Vehicle price, which may differ from the MSRP. Unless otherwise indicated, MSRP is the manufacturer suggested retail price and does not include destination/delivery fee plus government fees and taxes, any finance charges, any dealer processing charge, any electronic filing charge, and any emission testing charge. Optional equipment not included.

Vehicle Specifications and Configuration
You understand that we may not have completed the development of the Vehicle or begun manufacturing the Vehicle at the time of your Reservation. By agreeing to these Terms, you represent and warrant to us that you understand that the Vehicle configuration may change prior to execution of a sales agreement between you and a Dealer.

No Purchase Requirement.
The Program does not require you to complete a vehicle purchase, finance, or lease contract. If you change your mind before you have entered into a contract with your Dealer, you may cancel your Reservation pursuant to Section 10 below.

Right to Decline, Cancel Reservation.
Ford, at its sole discretion, may decline or cancel your Reservation at any time, for any reason. You will be notified by email if your Reservation is declined, and your Reservation Deposit will be refunded if it has already been processed.

Right to Modify, Cancel Program.
Ford reserves the right to change, update, improve, correct, modify, suspend, discontinue or cancel all or part of the Program, including any of its features, functionalities or manners of operation at any time without any notice or obligation to you. …””

Now people say “skipped the line” with some obvious moral implication, as though there was a rule that has been broken causing unfairness. When instead “skipping the line” may as well have been the name on the front of the game box

but I think it ended up being a mistake that garnered weeks of negative press about dealers selling priority slots that still pops up today.

and this is my irritation: perhaps it is so upsetting people only because they are being incorrectly chear-led on to believe they have a reason they should be upset

The game is called “Skip-Bo” - you put down the cards in order, unless someone has a “skip-bo” card to play.

The game is not, you put down the cards in order, and if someone plays a skip-bo card it is unfair and a reason to be mad that you chose to play skip-bo.

if a half dozen dealers hadn't played games with the option (e.g. sending email blasts that were essentially selling priority slots to the highest bidder).

contrast with this very good and different critique

 

[sotek2345]

Meh - it is what it is. I experienced it with Tesla, I experienced it here. Even if they did invite people to order in strict reservation priority, there'd be complaints about Ford's need to prioritize for supply chain limitations, batching, manufacturing efficiency, etc.

Ford was clear about everything up front: a reservation didn't guarantee you the ability to order or receive a truck in any particular timeframe at any particular price. You can argue that there was some type of implied expectation of fairness or queueing or whatever, but Ford was clear that your business relationship was with the dealer and that Ford just helped to facilitate the interest on behalf of dealers, who are Ford's customers. I don't recall any promises other than you registering your interest with a token refundable deposit, which went straight to the dealer you chose.

Now, can we get back to the fun part? We used to call the extra time required to talk to people about the Model S as "Tesla Time"... I suppose we can just use "Lightning Time" to talk about the truck.

Guy came up to me last week and said "I see your hood's open, need some help?" He didn't see me loading 6 cases of soda into the frunk.

Thanks for getting us back on topic!

For myself, I will admit to being a bit vain and looking forward to the attention. I have driven Shelbys (GT500 and GT350 for the last ~7 years) and grew to like the attention they get.

 

[Maxx]

My pro won’t have the light bars. I plan to debadge and cover the white lights with something darker in front. That should help flying under the radar. After that, if someone still succeed in cornering me, they deserve the answers they seek and will get my full attention. Then again, by the time I get mine, all questions are probably answered already.

 

[Blainestang]

Obviously you thought a reservation meant something that it did not.

Nope, I didn't. I thought the reservation system would make a VERY general indication of when one might get their truck, with many of variables like dealer allocations, parts availability, etc.

This isn't about ME, I'm explaining what I think the thought process is from other Lightning reservation holders is that would result in the interactions OP is seeing.

Ford created lines, then when it was almost time to order (months after reservations were made), Ford made an official way to let 10-25% of reservation holders jump to the front of the line.

Dealers were even telling people their spot in line before prioritization, and then they created the prioritization system and let a bunch of people skip the line that they created and dealers publicized.

Can Ford legally do that? Sure. Did they imply that they might throw a wrench in the system along the way AND that reservation timestamp is important? Yes and yes. Could they have avoided a lot of the disappointment and probably-unrealistic expectations by communicating better or sooner? Absolutely. For instance, just say from the beginning that Prioritization is a thing, instead of waiting until 6 months after reservations started and a month or two before orders started.

I can see why you're upset and why it doesn't seem fair, but I don't think fairness was ever going to occur and with demand far outpacing supply this is a problem not easily solved.

It goes way beyond Ford giving dealers priority.

I'm not "upset". The algorithm has smiled upon me and I have a Pro order for MY2023.

But I was explaining why some people believe (accurately) that Ford created lines and then let people skip them, and that may be why OP is getting questions along those lines.

Furthermore, I'm not going to just go along with gaslighting people that "there is no line" or that the process was obvious from the beginning when there clearly is a line and the process was very vague and poorly communicated.

 

[Blainestang]

and this is my irritation: perhaps it is so upsetting people only because they are being incorrectly chear-led on to believe they have a reason they should be upset

Or maybe Ford could have communicated much better to manage expectations, and people don't care to be gaslit with claims that "there never was a line" or pretending that the process was clear from the beginning even though prioritization wasn't a thing until ~6 months after the reservation process started.

If your dealer told you that you were 1st in line before Prioritization and then all of a sudden you're 26th in line and probably not getting a Pro until 2025, and for probably $10k more, they're "upset only because they're being led to believe they have a reason to be upset"? They have NO REASON to be upset whatsoever in that scenario?

Sure, there are plenty of people who had unreasonable expectations given the number of reservations, how quickly they came in, and how limited the Lightning was going to be. But, there are also legitimate reasons to be disappointed or upset about how the whole thing went down considering the very vague information originally available and prioritization being created so far down the line.

 

[FlasherZ]

Nope, I didn't. I thought the reservation system would make a VERY general indication of when one might get their truck, with many of variables like dealer allocations, parts availability, etc.

Let's be clear: *YOU* created your own expectations beyond what Ford has documented; Ford did not set any and that is crystal clear in the documentation on Ford's site. That's not "gaslighting", that's reality.

People on this forum are not getting the "average" experience - we're enthusiasts, using backdoor Ford links, modifying CSS sheets from delivery carriers, and other assorted tools to get more data than the average experience.

The average experience is information given to you through Ford's e-mails and dealership information (which isn't much). Every person who has stopped me to ask about my truck has relayed their own status - "I'm waiting to order, I've been invited to order but am waiting to be scheduled, or I'm waiting for my truck to be produced and can't wait for it to get to the dealership".

Not one has claimed that they're pissed off that Ford created lines and they got screwed, etc. etc etc. They're patiently waiting.

 

[ExCivilian]

I'm used to the attention because, aside from driving EVs for the past six years, my wife and I have been driving diesel *cars* for the past twenty.

So both of us have been getting the "wait, wait, you're using the wrong pump!" conversations that lead into "wow, it's a DIESEL?" for many years with her getting the bulk of the "attention" over the beetle, the wagons, and eventually the Touareg that have all since been sold in anticipation of the Lightning.

That said, my wife might actually get *less* attention in the Lightning because...well, they say a picture's worth a thousand words so:

Spoiler: This is my 5' 4," 100lb soaking wet wife

Spoiler: and this is her 9,000lb truck

Suffice to say if you saw *her* idling in *this* with its exhaust brake hissing in a school pickup line among a bunch of Teslas and Toyota minivans you might think a thing or two and eventually say something about it

My six year old daughter is my primary concern, however, because growing up in this truck has emboldened her to derisively refer to all other trucks (at stoplights, with her window down no less) as "cute, baby trucks"

 

[Blainestang]

Let's be clear: *YOU* created your own expectations beyond what Ford has documented; Ford did not set any and that is crystal clear in the documentation on Ford's site. That's not "gaslighting", that's reality.

You're making up strawman positions so you can claim my position is wrong.

Someone above claimed there "was no line". There absolutely is a line at every dealer that, by default, is sorted by reservation timestamp. It's gaslighting to say that line doesn't exist or never existed. It does exist, it still exists, and it's clearly documented by Ford's dealer playbook.

And whether or not people's disappointment is *reasonable* is up for debate, but my original point was to explain why they might be disappointed and asking questions implying that OP may have gotten bumped to the front of the line. There was a line at every dealer. People got bumped to the front of some of them, ahead of earlier reservation holders. There's nothing to argue there. It's just a demonstrable fact. Saying there is no line is false. Saying people shouldn't be upset is an opinion. It happened, some people are upset. That's my guess as to why OP is getting those questions.

Not one has claimed that they're pissed off that Ford created lines and they got screwed, etc. etc etc. They're patiently waiting.

LOL, what? NO ONE has said they're upset about the way the whole reservations/prioritization/ordering thing went down?

Is that your claim?

 

[greenne]

If your dealer told you that you were 1st in line before Prioritization and then all of a sudden you're 26th in line and probably not getting a Pro until 2025, and for probably $10k more, they're "upset only because they're being led to believe they have a reason to be upset"? They have NO REASON to be upset whatsoever in that scenario?

Sure, there are plenty of people who had unreasonable expectations given the number of reservations, how quickly they came in, and how limited the Lightning was going to be. But, there are also legitimate reasons to be disappointed or upset about how the whole thing went down considering the very vague information originally available and prioritization being created so far down the line.

Crap like this is exactly why dealers hesitate to tell people where they are in line. People think they are entitled to a certain place or certain order when it clearly states in the reservation process they are not.

Get upset if you must..but I don't see the point of airing all your grievances against Ford on here.(Again) Yes we heard you, yes life is unfair, Ford didn't do as good of a job as you think they should have, GET OVER IT...

 

[FlasherZ]

LOL, what? NO ONE has said they're upset about the way the whole reservations/prioritization/ordering thing went down?

Is that your claim?

Correct, for every-single-person who has talked to me about my truck when they've seen it in the wild, not a single person has said a word about the reservation, ordering, or delivery processes. (Since that's supposed to be the topic of this thread before it got hijacked.)

Not "no one" - I said "not one" in conjunction with the previous paragraph.

But it's clear that you believe that Ford has set some type of expectation for you (that they didn't) and you're pissed off. That's your right, and it appears that no matter how much the truth and reality is pointed out to you, you aren't going to accept it. So I wish you a great weekend and won't continue to engage. Hope you like your truck when you get it.

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