Being asked to stop and chat about the Lightning

[Blainestang]

Get upset if you must..but I don't see the point of airing all your grievances against Ford on here.(Again) Yes we heard you, yes life is unfair, Ford didn't do as good of a job as you think they should have, GET OVER IT...

LOL, I just explained why people might be upset, responding to the original topic.

Then people jump in and say demonstrably false statements like "there never was a line" and explain why people are stupid to be upset.

Then when I clarify a demonstrably false statement, I should "get over it".

We get it, we heard you (again) that people who are upset shouldn't be upset. Get over it, and realize the FACT that some people are upset is a reasonable answer to the OP's experience. You don't have to jump in and say how dumb they are for being upset.

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[greenne]

LOL, I just explained why people might be upset, responding to the original topic.

Then people jump in and say demonstrably false statements like "there never was a line" and explain why people are stupid to be upset.

Then when I clarify a demonstrably false statement, I should "get over it".

We get it, we heard you (again) that people who are upset shouldn't be upset. Get over it, and realize the FACT that some people are upset is a reasonable answer to the OP's experience. You don't have to jump in and say how dumb they are for being upset.

A. I never said people shouldn't be upset. I never said anyone was dumb.. including you.
B. It seems like you are more upset that people aren't upset than the people who have a right to be upset are upset.

Quit putting words in my mouth. Just like you seem to think Ford said something they didn't say (and has been pointed out numerous times to you)..you seem to think people said things they did not say

 

[greenne]

Probably because Ford let a ton of people skip the line at the last minute.

Rivian’s system isn’t great either, but they didn’t *officially* let a bunch of people skip to the front of the line.

Its rude/uncomfortable to ask accusatory questions to someone in person, but Ford put people in this position by letting a bunch of people officially skip to the front of dealer lines.

Or here's an idea.. perhaps the reason MOST people don't have one is because demand is off the charts and Ford only has the ability to produce 15,000.

No big conspiracy, no evil plot by Ford to deny folks their truck. Just simple supply and demand.

 

[vandy1981]

Or here's an idea.. perhaps the reason MOST people don't have one is because demand is off the charts and Ford only has the ability to produce 15,000.

No big conspiracy, no evil plot by Ford to deny folks their truck. Just simple supply and demand.

I got the first truck that was delivered to my dealer and am still annoyed that Ford let dealers reprioritize orders. I was lucky because my dealer didn't elect to use that option.

It's just a truck and there are far more important things to worry about in life. That said, it's a bad look when someone who reserved the first second that the system opened up is passed over for someone at the same dealer who reserved at the last minute but agreed to pay $20k over MSRP to get a priority slot. This looks especially bad in relationship to the way that Tesla handles their orders and would turn off a potential conquest customer who doesn't want to deal with legacy auto dealer games.

 

[cvalue13]

Someone above claimed there "was no line". There absolutely is a line at every dealer that, by default, is sorted by reservation timestamp. It's gaslighting to say that line doesn't exist or never existed. It does exist, it still exists, and it's clearly documented by Ford's dealer playbook.

I think you’ve made some great distinctions and points.

But you and I appear to have differing understandings of “gaslighting”

While once I “said”:

Nobody can get “skipped” in line, if there is no line.

In context it was said within paragraphs (too many paragraphs!) making abundantly clear the actual point:

just saying, seems like semantics to me.

you can choose to say “there is a line, and ford let people skip” but it describes the exact same outcome as instead saying “the ‘line’ was only ever what Ford determined it to be”

Choose whichever semantic framing you want:

(A) ‘there was no line,’ or

(B) ‘there was only ever an obviously meaningless line’

both formulations having the same outcome: nobody with any clue should have ever gotten their hearts set on anything based upon the date they made a $100 refundable deposit for the chance to buy a truck from a car dealership

which means at the end of the day we’re only in violent agreement about the following:

for any high-demand low-volume specialty vehicle of the past 3-5 years, from any legitimate manufacturer, I think a reality check is in order regarding whether any such vehicle has been distributed remotely on a first-reservation/first-served basis…. If Ford’s made any central mistake, it’s over-estimating it’s customers understanding of what a “reservation” means. Too many people, apparently, incorrectly believed it to be something like pulling a number at a deli counter.

 

[Blainestang]

Correct, for every-single-person who has talked to me about my truck when they've seen it in the wild, not a single person has said a word about the reservation, ordering, or delivery processes. (Since that's supposed to be the topic of this thread before it got hijacked.)

Understood. In your experiences with in-person interactions, no one was accusatory. That's good.

OP has a different experience than you, and I was just attempting to explain the difference (on topic) because it's a demonstrable fact that some people are disappointed with the way it all went down.

Then people took issue with the fact that there are people upset.

 

[greenne]

I got the first truck that was delivered to my dealer and am still annoyed that Ford let dealers reprioritize orders. I was lucky because my dealer didn't elect to use that option.

It's just a truck and there are far more important things to worry about in life. That said, it's a bad look when someone who reserved the first second that the system opened up is passed over for someone at the same dealer who reserved at the last minute but agreed to pay $20k over MSRP to get a priority slot. This looks especially bad in relationship to the way that Tesla handles their orders and would turn off a potential conquest customer who doesn't want to deal with legacy auto dealer games.

Agree with all your points. Ford has some issues they need to correct to be sure.

To be fair, Ford is using the dealer system they have used for 100yrs to sell a high demand vehicle. That presents problems I don't think anyone anticipated. (If you recal Ford had calculated the demand for an electric f150 to be ~40,000 units per year. The demand was way higher than imagined and have been playing catchup ever sense).

I don't think the Tesla "system" is necessarily the right answer either. I do think the order system is better in this case-- a high demand vehicle-- but what happens after the sale? What happens with the servicing aspect and what happens when(if) Ford starts producing enough Lightnings for dealer stock(invenrtory)? This is all a huge shift for Ford...

Make no mistake, Tesla is still a game..its just a different game with rules made up on the fly by Elon...

 

[Blainestang]

Or here's an idea.. perhaps the reason MOST people don't have one is because demand is off the charts and Ford only has the ability to produce 15,000.

No big conspiracy, no evil plot by Ford to deny folks their truck. Just simple supply and demand.

Yeah, there are plenty of the 200,000 reservation holders that were never going to have a truck before 2024+. There are absolutely people who are unreasonably upset, thinking their June reservation entitled them to a truck somehow. But one of Ford's major screwups was waiting 5 months to create a system for skipping the dealer line. Whether people reasonably should be upset about that is immaterial to the OP. He's getting sort-of uncomfortable questions in public, and it's pretty clear that that's part of the reason people think the people with Lightnings may have jumped the line.

A. I never said people shouldn't be upset. I never said anyone was dumb.. including you.
B. It seems like you are more upset that people aren't upset than the people who have a right to be upset are upset.

Quit putting words in my mouth. Just like you seem to think Ford said something they didn't say (and has been pointed out numerous times to you)..you seem to think people said things they did not say

I don't think there's anything I've claimed Ford said that they didn't say.

I'll own that no one probably literally said people are dumb for being upset. IMO, there's an implication that people are dumb to not have made a bunch of specific assumptions about what would happen months in the future based on vague legalese.

Again, my original point was just to answer OP's connundrum about why his Rivian and Lighting interactions are different, and I guessed that it's because people are upset that Ford created lines and then let people jump to the front of them. It's a demonstrable fact that people are upset about that.

I agree with you that we don't need to relitigate whether or not they're justified in being upset. That's been done many times. BUT my original post just stated the fact that people are upset about it and they may be taking it out on current owners, which is on topic.

 

[Blainestang]

which means at the end of the day we’re only in violent agreement about the following:

Yeah, let's just agree to disagree for the time being on how justified they are in their disappointment.

But for OP and directly on topic, I think OP is getting some of the backlash of the disappointment that should be directed elsewhere. He's the wrong target, unfortunately, but that's my guess as to why people are creating uncomfortable interactions with him.

 

[greenne]

Yeah, there are plenty of the 200,000 reservation holders that were never going to have a truck before 2024+. There are absolutely people who are unreasonably upset, thinking their June reservation entitled them to a truck somehow. But one of Ford's major screwups was waiting 5 months to create a system for skipping the dealer line. Whether people reasonably should be upset about that is immaterial to the OP. He's getting sort-of uncomfortable questions in public, and it's pretty clear that that's part of the reason people think the people with Lightnings may have jumped the line.



I don't think there's anything I've claimed Ford said that they didn't say.

I'll own that no one probably literally said people are dumb for being upset. IMO, there's an implication that people are dumb to not have made a bunch of specific assumptions about what would happen months in the future based on vague legalese.

Again, my original point was just to answer OP's connundrum about why his Rivian and Lighting interactions are different, and I guessed that it's because people are upset that Ford created lines and then let people jump to the front of them. It's a demonstrable fact that people are upset about that.

I agree with you that we don't need to relitigate whether or not they're justified in being upset. That's been done many times. BUT my original post just stated the fact that people are upset about it and they may be taking it out on current owners, which is on topic.

I'm also betting a large chunk of the questions the OP is fielding are from people who don't even have a reservation. I see it every day on the various message boards.

You are making assumptions on what these people are "upset" about based on a second hand comment on a message board and willing to argue about it.

Your FACT isn't a FACT if you have no first hand knowledge about why they are upset. You have a guess based on your own bias and your own issues with Ford.

I'm not defending Ford, but I'm saying its quite a stretch to automatically jump to the conclusion that people are upset with Ford for the same reason you are upset with Ford.

The people the OP is fielding questions could very well be pissed off that they cannot go down to the local Ford dealer and buy one OR they are upset they can't reserve one, or that they can't place a bona fide order TODAY for one. (i.e. the reservation process).

It may have NOTHING to do with prioritization at all. You were the one that made that jump in logic...I'm saying there are other possibilities here you need to consider.

 

[Blainestang]

Your FACT isn't a FACT if you have no first hand knowledge about why they are upset.

Nope. My *fact* is that people are upset with Ford about the prioritization amongst other things. That's a fact. The only discussion is about whether those people are justified, not whether there are people upset about it.

You are making assumptions ... You have a guess

Now you're just arguing to argue. You're just repeating what I already said. You even quoted me saying it was a guess.

I guessed that it's because people are upset that Ford created lines and then let people jump to the front of them.

Fact: People are upset with Ford about prioritization, etc.

Guess: The people who are asking OP uncomfortable questions are upset about how Ford let people jump the line.

I'm also betting a large chunk of the questions the OP is fielding are from people who don't even have a reservation.

You'll have to argue with OP about that because he specifically said they said they had reservations in the first post.

The Lightning so far has been people asking, how much did you pay and how did you get one (referencing they had a reservation and haven't heard anything)

 

[greenne]

Nope. My *fact* is that people are upset with Ford about the prioritization amongst other things. That's a fact. The only discussion is about whether those people are justified, not whether there are people upset about it.

I guess you just make up your own facts as you go along.

The only thing we know(from OP) is that people are upset that they had a reservation and had not been invited to order.

Even if we assume they had a reservation, we have no idea if the reason they DID not get a reservation is because of a passover.

With the info given we don't know if they are 1st day reservations or August 15 reservations. We don't know if their selected dealer is in a non ZEV state, or their dealer even prioritized orders at all. We don't know if the reason they didn't get an invite was just bad dealer choice.(i.e. they unknowingly chose a dealer with high reservation count and low allocations).

Again you are making your own conclusions and calling them facts.

The only fact is they are upset with Ford because they had a reservation and they were not communicated about turning that reservation into an order.

And no I'm not arguing just to argue--I'm arguing because people make up their own reality and try to call them facts

 

[Blainestang]

Again you are making your own conclusions and calling them facts.

Nope. I have not.

I have repeatedly said two things:

Fact: People are upset with Ford about prioritization, etc.

Guess: The people who are asking OP uncomfortable questions are upset about how Ford let people jump the line.

That's what I said from the very beginning of the thread. People are upset about people jumping the line (fact), so my GUESS is that the people OP are talking about are probably upset about that (not fact, guess).

 

[hturnerfamily]

One of my first stops to charge today was at a EMC Electric Utility in Carrollton GA... both ChargePoint pedestals were occupied with Teslas.

I was able to maneuver in to the 'side' with my truck and camper, facing the passenger side of one of the Teslas, while a Lady sat inside. She hardly paid attention, but later, after I waited a long long time and not seeing any movement, I tapped lightly on her passenger window. She was shocked that I was 'waiting' to charge - she just though I was a truck and camper looking for a place to park.
It's going to be pretty normal for that type of reaction for a long while. But, come to find out, she's LOCAL, and the wife of the EMC President, and charges her Model 3 Long-Range for free.
She moved, and then walked back over and was so excited to finally 'see' a Ford Lightning. We chatted for a while.
A few minutes later I got visted right there again by a few 'old' men(I'm old, so I can say that)... they were WITH THE EMC, and excited to finally 'see' one in person, as they are really interested in moving toward EVs for their business. Great conversations, and yes, folks have different takes on the truck, but they all seem pleasantly surprised and interested. They wanted my picture. I feel special.

Later, in ROME GA, at a downtown CHargePoint GA POWER charger, a local police office stopped by. He didn't ticket me, but was very interested in 'seeing' on of these machines, finally.

Yes, you can't really expect folks NOT to come toward you when you arrive to charge with a Lightning, though it make take some a few minutes to actually REALIZE that you are there to CHARGE, and in a TRUCK(!)...

 

[TaxmanHog]

Friday night lite reading time, after a week of tracking stat's, came here to read Gunracks experiences dealing with inquisitive folks seeing the Lighting for the first time.

Back on track.....

I proudly wear the lightning badging, that has indeed stimulated conversations with folks, the gas company pipe fitters were at our house and everyone took a good 30-60 minutes break to ask all kind of questions, most we definite ICE truck enthusiast, none were rude or dismissive of an electric truck, they were impressed with it's torque and horsepower.

Then a visit by National Grid field engineer crew to do a site survey of my plans to bring a second electric service to my detached garage, these guys were EV enthusiast, so they understood the whole deal, again a 30 minute show and tell about the truck, though they new a little more seeing the publicity about the Lightning. I got a thumbs up on the plan to bring a 2nd service line to the garage!

Neighbors have been asking about it, but most are not interested in EV's so they are not fully impressed.

My friends, mostly motorcycle guys & gals, fellow racers, etc. the majority are not interested in EV's, they have reservations driven by political rhetoric, lack of understanding about the technology, limitations of the availability to charge on the road. I do my best to explain my use case & plans to deal with it's limitations in a constructive way, while some are just being ball busters to get my goat.

I have not had any total stranger encounters yet at shopping centers or charging stations, the two time I used a DCFC, were around midnight at a desolate mall parking lot, yes I was packing just in case (LOL)

I told my wife that we're going to the nearby Stop & Shop which has two free J1772 240v charging stations, hoping to stimulate reaction and inquiry when we roll out and pop the frunk to load up.

Now back to the side bar semantics & arguments aka thread derailment......

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