Best wheels/tires for efficiency

[FredMullegun]

Hi all.

I have an F-150 and it has 285/70/17 that are close to 33" tall but they are E load rating and therefore heavy.

Many Lightnings have 275/60/20 and I was thinking of getting Ford 20" wheels but they are all heavy (around 38 pounds) compared to my 17" wheels (25 pounds). the tires will weigh less and I can get 116 load ratings but the overall combo weight will be around the same.


Is there any other alternative to get 33" tall tires in a lighter combo? Most aftermarket wheels have +12 or +20 offset which will poke out and presumably lower efficiency.

My guess is for efficiency the order goes
Tread (rolling resistance)
Poke
Weight

I'm sure some people here have investigated deeper than my search abilities for range purposes.

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[TomB985]

Hi all.

I have an F-150 and it has 285/70/17 that are close to 33" tall but they are E load rating and therefore heavy.

Many Lightnings have 275/60/20 and I was thinking of getting Ford 20" wheels but they are all heavy (around 38 pounds) compared to my 17" wheels (25 pounds). the tires will weigh less and I can get 116 load ratings but the overall combo weight will be around the same.


Is there any other alternative to get 33" tall tires in a lighter combo? Most aftermarket wheels have +12 or +20 offset which will poke out and presumably lower efficiency.

My guess is for efficiency the order goes
Tread (rolling resistance)
Poke
Weight

I'm sure some people here have investigated deeper than my search abilities for range purposes.

I don’t have any good suggestions, but I have thoughts on what you’re looking for.

I think the factory 20” wheels are heavier than you think. Motor Trend weighed the factory wheel set at 79 lbs in a recent article. The factory tires are 34 lbs, which makes the wheel a portly 45 lbs.

I don’t see how weight affects efficiency, though. Inertia means more mass doesn’t take more energy to stay in motion if everything else is equal, and the energy used to spin them is a tiny fraction of what it takes to change the velocity of the remaining 6,500 lbs. Added rolling mass also means you have more energy to recover when slowing to a stop as long as you don’t exceed regen capacity and bleed energy into heat with the friction brakes.

I think wheel aerodynamics play a much bigger role than weight. EVs are some of the only vehicles sold with wheel covers, and I’ve read numerous tests over the years showing a 2-3% improvement in highway range with aero covers installed. The factory wheels are presumably designed for decent aero, but aftermarkets rarely are. I think you’d be less efficient going with a lighter aftermarket unless it had a decent aero profile.

ON edit: You may be talking about wheels and tires for a conventional F150. These principles would be the same, but you may have an attractive option with Lightning 20” takeoffs. I believe the 20” wheels are the most aerodynamic OEM option at the moment.

 

[chrisvitek1]

There is a balance in rotating mass when it comes to expending energy for accelerations and recovering energy while slowing down. 40% of breaking/accelerating force is consumed by rotating mass. 79 pounds is optimal. Else you risk efficiency loss.

 

[TomB985]

There is a balance in rotating mass when it comes to expending energy for accelerations and recovering energy while slowing down. 40% of breaking/accelerating force is consumed by rotating mass. 79 pounds is optimal. Else you risk efficiency loss.

There’s no way.

You’re saying a go-kart with Lightning wheels and tires would use 40% as much energy to accerate to speed?

 

[chrisvitek1]

No, I am saying that rotational energy is a big deal. And, that the regeneration hardware is tuned to the weight of the rotational mass. so is the acceleration.

 

[FredMullegun]

I saw the same motor trend article and I believe the Lightning wheels are heavier for the aero advantage of the extra metal. I have some F-150 takeoffs that are 38 pounds

I think aero matters for highway and weight matters for braking, acceleration and a bit for city driving. EVs are greatly efficient at city so I think that's why Ford made that compromise for better aero.

I noticed the stock lightning tires are only 34 pounds which is insane for a 275/60r20. Perhaps that is how they made up the difference with the heavier wheel.

 

[Dukhudo]

Depends on the wheel. Mine came with the Hankook Dynapro AT2 which weigh 41 lbs. The General Grabbers weigh 34 lbs.

And I don't know if it's the All-Terrain treads or the extra weight, but my efficiency isn't great compared to what I see others posting.

 

[cyberious]

This is my third EV, and while weight certainly is a factor, rolling resistance is a larger factor.

https://www.cartalk.com/tires/best-tires-for-your-ev
As an example, if you are looking for an AT tire, maybe a Toyo that is specific to EV as it will need to take the weight as well as the reduced rolling resistance.

https://www.toyotires.com/open-country-at3-ev

 

[XENOILPHOBE]

I am on the same quest, this is my 6th EV, I always go with the lightest fully forged wheel and lightest EV rated tires I can get. Right now I am leaning towards the Atomic Wheels (30 lbs) in 20 inch and Pirelli Scorpion AS Plus 3's (38 lbs) would prefer an ECO Focused tire, so still trying to find the right mix for my 2024 Platinum with these ridiculous 22 inch wheels. This truck is a street only vehicle and I have another off-road truck purpose built with 33" (Nittos), but that would kill the range on this already overweight truck.

The setup above would drop 20 lbs per corner, static 80 lbs total and rotational weight reduction of

Decrease of 1.1 lbs rotating weight = increase in 1 WHP

 

[FredMullegun]

That is the exact tire I went with. Those atomic wheels are interesting. Heavier than the S77/S81 wheels but half the price.

 

[XENOILPHOBE]

That is the exact tire I went with. Those atomic wheels are interesting. Heavier than the S77/S81 wheels but half the price.

The S77/S81's are only 17 inches, and cold rolled "forged". The Atomics are 20 inch (street config) mono block forged weigh 30 lbs, the Atomics in 17 inch config (off road) are 32 lbs with the added weight being the "fugazzi" bead lock look.

 

[FredMullegun]

The S77/S81's are only 17 inches, and cold rolled "forged". The Atomics are 20 inch (street config) mono block forged weigh 30 lbs, the Atomics in 17 inch config (off road) are 32 lbs with the added weight being the "fugazzi" bead lock look.

They make a 20" for the F-150 that has a +38mm offset so they won't stick out brodozer style. Most guys are buying the 20x7 for fronts on a drag pack setup but they also have 20x10.

I don't know the exact weight or manufacturing but I know the 20x7s are sub 30.

 

[XENOILPHOBE]

They make a 20" for the F-150 that has a +38mm offset so they won't stick out brodozer style. Most guys are buying the 20x7 for fronts on a drag pack setup but they also have 20x10.

I don't know the exact weight or manufacturing but I know the 20x7s are sub 30.

I am definitely not going for the Brodozer look, just want better efficiency, been slowing down from my usual highway speed ~80 MPH kills the range, I could get about 200 miles doing that in my old Model S, but the aero profile on this truck cuts it way down to ~140 miles @ 80.

 

[Firn]

I'm in the "weight isn't that important" camp.

Weight in the vehicle itself only increases rolling resistance, and slows acceleration. If rolling resistance was the same for different weights we would just expend more energy getting up to speed, and get more back slowing down.

The same applies to wheels and tires. It takes more energy to get it up to speed, but it doesn't take any more energy to keep it at that speed. When slowing we get the large majority of that energy back. Yes, a slight loss of energy (efficiency)due to the small inefficiency of accelerstion and regenerative braking, but it is fairly small.

The biggest effect of weight is acceleration, but that's mostly a gas car thing. With the huge torque of this truck the difference is negligible.

Rolling resistance will be the biggest issue below highway speed. Roughly speaking the harder the tread compound and the narrower the contact patch the better. A stiff sidewall will help as well.

At highway speeds aero will be the big killer. Proper wheel design is the best thing you can do. Look to Tesla and the latest Rivian offerings for good designs for aero. Roughly speaking a smooth and flat face is good although from what I have seen you do want some airflow through the wheel for the greatest benefit

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