Does the Lightning Still Stack Up Well vs. Other EV Trucks?

[JRT]

Hey I get @dajohn3 anger and issue. I can't remember a single post by and ER wishing they bought a SR. I lived with a SR Mach-e for 27k miles and it was a pain and the reason I'm in an xlt er. It isn't perfect for sure, it works for most driving, but when it doesn't work it is far more a pain then just filling up a gas tank. I'm not going 100% electric, it would be a mistake in my case.

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[AI_Speed]

Hello Everyone, No the Ford does not stack up to any of the other EV trucks when it has a 98 KW battery pack. If you go on long drives of a 1000 miles or so you will find the need to have your vehicle towed on the 2nd day because the range goes down to around 80 miles at 90 percent going 65 mph. I have had my Lightning with a 98 KW battery since January 2024 and have had it in the shop 4 times because of charging and range issues. Currently the truck is sitting at the dealership with them saying that they can't find anything wrong with the vehicle but the truck can't go more than 196 miles on a 100 percent charge at 60 mph. I had to be towed to the charging station that was 6 miles away and had to wait approximately 4 hours for the tow truck. While sitting on the side of the road a cyber truck passed by pulling a travel trailer. I can't even think about pulling anything with my Lightning because the charging stations are over 100 miles apart and by looking at the motortrend range of the extended range battery pack I would only get around 81 miles of range. Not enough to make it to a charging station. So talking about true range of a lightning with the 98 KW at the speed limit of 80 mph you will be able to go around 144 miles while the truck is empty and only one person in the cab. Don't be fooled by what is on the dash computer for how much range you still have because you will be having your vehicle towed because of the lack of charging stations. The Lightning with a 98KW battery cannot be considered as a truck because it cannot pull 7000 lbs 150 miles like what the cyber truck can do on tesla's standard battery pack. I am not saying that the truck isn't looking good or fun to drive short distances so you can go back home to charge it because it costs 2.5 times more to charge on the road than what it cost for a gas engine f150. The fact remains that Ford severely undersized their standard battery to the point where it is only good for city driving and charging at home. The standard battery, based on true range at 100 percent charge, should be around 122 KW not 98 KW. I currently have over 6000 long range miles on my lightning, charged at many different charging stations and have found that the charging time to 80 percent has doubled to (46 minutes instead of 24 minutes when I first purchased the truck) so look forward to charging your lightning every 100 or so miles at 90 percent so you can make it to the next charging station. Spending over an hour to charge to 90 percent one time will make you wish you had a gas truck. Getting towed because your range droped to under a 100 miles the second day of travel on a long trip will make you crazy, especially when your wife is yelling at you for buying an EV truck. Remember, if you don't have power, you don't have air conditioning, and when it is close to 100 degrees you will be cursing the day that you purchased a F150 lightning with a 98KW battery pack.

Similar and had $81k FMC buyback last month - are you doing the same?

 

[AI_Speed]

It really sounds like you work for Ford. Getting a lawyer immediately when you are not letting Ford go through all of their procedures before making a case to a lawyer is premature. I would be happy if my ford could go 196 miles at 75 mph. The most that I have gotten is 144 miles at the freeway speed limit averaging from 60 to 80 mph. I made it 196 miles at 60 mph on cruise control and never driving above 60 during that trip. Now the only one trying to spread lies is you by telling everyone that you had no problems while driving 3300 kilometers on two different long trips because you are looking at 15 times of charging to 90 percent at around an hour each time and waiting for a charger some of the time. Or maybe you have the extended range battery and are happy with your results because you only had to charge 8 times on a long trip. The F150 lightning that I have is the most comfortable truck I have ever owned and I have owned a f150, a dodge ram, and a couple of Chevy's so I have had ample time with each manufacturers products. All I am presenting is that the 98KW battery pack is an undersized battery and cannot reach the range (at least mine can't) that Ford is trying to advertise. Placing blame on me for buying the vehicle and blaming the dealership when the true problem is with Ford undersizing the battery pack is a bit ridiculous. True range is what Ford needs to address and should upgrade their standard battery to 122 KW so people who use their trucks as trucks can do everything with their trucks (within reason) that a gas or diesel truck can do. Ford corporate will care when it affects their bottom line because the video will be posted online for the world to view before they buy. This will decrease the sale of the 98kw Lightning because everyone will be well informed about the trucks capabilities. You see, I really don't give a damn if Ford doesn't care but I care about the next guy or gal, like me, who expects to get the range that is stated. Oh yeah, I have a previous video that is being spliced together by a friend who will be posting the 196 mile drive to my European friends and family of 15 million viewers. I don't use lawyers to do my dirty work, I find my own way to get true justice.

I got real true-fast justice with an FMC repurchase $81k last month - bought another one $56k new ER 0% 5 years - love the power/speed/ride/fun.

 

[RickKeen]

The issue of 70mph range vs EPA range is not unique to Ford - all EV's are going to trip over this. Actually ALL vehicles trip over this since even the EPA "highway" range is measured at an average speed of only 47 mph.

The F150 suffers a bit in 70mph range (for similar battery size) compared to the competition (except maybe the Hummer) due to being larger and less aerodynamically efficient. But of course, having a larger roomier cab, and larger interior cargo volume capacity is one of the features a lot of us love about the Ford.

Out of Spec published these numbers for 70mph ranges:
Silverado - 434 miles, 2 mi/kwh
Rivian - 345 miles, 2.6 mi/kwh
F150 - 282 miles, 2.1 mi/kwh
Cybertruck - 304 miles, 2.5 mi/kwh

 

[Gullwing]

I got real true-fast justice with an FMC repurchase $81k last month - bought another one $56k new ER 0% 5 years - love the power/speed/ride/fun.

That's an awesome deal! Any details you can share on discounts and rebates to get to $56k?

 

[VAF84]

Out of Spec published these numbers for 70mph ranges:
Silverado - 434 miles, 2 mi/kwh
Rivian - 345 miles, 2.6 mi/kwh
F150 - 282 miles, 2.1 mi/kwh
Cybertruck - 304 miles, 2.5 mi/kwh

Would love to get me some 434mi range. I discount Rivian from the pack due to size. Honestly even cyber truck is looking appealing as it’s pulling 300 miles with a smaller battery greater efficiency and keep the quick acceleration. It will also have the range extender option at some point. I heard that the GM product may have a normal 0 to 60 second (roughly 6 seconds) without putting it into a special mode, which would be a turn off considering how well the other EV trucks accelerate without having to get into any kind of special mode.

Further, I got to thinking after replying to another thread that I would feel less comfortable owning a Ford EV product out of warranty than one from say Rivian or Tesla, whose whole staff is dedicated to EV products. I think that fixes will be more expensive and time-consuming at your typical Ford, GM, or Ram dealership.

 

[dajohn3]

I got real true-fast justice with an FMC repurchase $81k last month - bought another one $56k new ER 0% 5 years - love the power/speed/ride/fun.

I just received my denial for my buyback request because they say that my ford did not meet the Texas lemon law standard when I brought it back 4 times for multiple issues and always for the battery pack not giving me range and having to be towed because of this issue. I guess a video of my truck flat towing a suburban to my ranch will need to be made to keep anyone who was on the fence about buying a 98KW Lightning would change their minds. I have the time and there are hotels along the way to be towed to if the range of the truck doesn't allow me to get to a charging station. Ford undersized their Lightning's standard battery and all of the other manufacturers are going to monopolize on this issue to sell their larger standard battery packed trucks. Hell, Chevy is supposed to be coming out with one that has a 200 KW battery at a price of $102,000. It is kind of high in price but you know that you won't have any problems making it to a charging station.

 

[invertedspear]

It really sounds like you work for Ford. Getting a lawyer immediately when you are not letting Ford go through all of their procedures before making a case to a lawyer is premature. I would be happy if my ford could go 196 miles at 75 mph. The most that I have gotten is 144 miles at the freeway speed limit averaging from 60 to 80 mph. I made it 196 miles at 60 mph on cruise control and never driving above 60 during that trip. Now the only one trying to spread lies is you by telling everyone that you had no problems while driving 3300 kilometers on two different long trips because you are looking at 15 times of charging to 90 percent at around an hour each time and waiting for a charger some of the time. Or maybe you have the extended range battery and are happy with your results because you only had to charge 8 times on a long trip. The F150 lightning that I have is the most comfortable truck I have ever owned and I have owned a f150, a dodge ram, and a couple of Chevy's so I have had ample time with each manufacturers products. All I am presenting is that the 98KW battery pack is an undersized battery and cannot reach the range (at least mine can't) that Ford is trying to advertise. Placing blame on me for buying the vehicle and blaming the dealership when the true problem is with Ford undersizing the battery pack is a bit ridiculous. True range is what Ford needs to address and should upgrade their standard battery to 122 KW so people who use their trucks as trucks can do everything with their trucks (within reason) that a gas or diesel truck can do. Ford corporate will care when it affects their bottom line because the video will be posted online for the world to view before they buy. This will decrease the sale of the 98kw Lightning because everyone will be well informed about the trucks capabilities. You see, I really don't give a damn if Ford doesn't care but I care about the next guy or gal, like me, who expects to get the range that is stated. Oh yeah, I have a previous video that is being spliced together by a friend who will be posting the 196 mile drive to my European friends and family of 15 million viewers. I don't use lawyers to do my dirty work, I find my own way to get true justice.

>It really sounds like you work for Ford.

They would fire me immediately for suggesting you sue them. I don't work for Ford, but I can't stand people spreading false statements.

> Now the only one trying to spread lies is you by telling everyone that you had no problems while driving 3300 kilometers on two different long trips because you are looking at 15 times of charging to 90 percent at around an hour each time and waiting for a charger some of the time.

Not sure who you think I am, but the only "long" trip I've taken so far was about 400 miles round trips, and I've never claimed to take my truck on anything I would consider long.

>Placing blame on me for buying the vehicle and blaming the dealership when the true problem is with Ford undersizing the battery pack is a bit ridiculous.

Again, not sure who you think I am but the only thing I'm placing blame on you for is spreading false facts about 98 kWh Platinum trims, and the ridiculous claims of the dealer being cut off from Ford.

>True range is what Ford needs to address

Ford doesn't rate the range, the EPA does. "True range" is what? There are so many factors that affect how far you can go, no matter what your power source is. The best you can hope for is "In a given condition you can expect to get X miles"


I think you're lumping me in to everyone else that's critical of your comments. I am critical of some, but not everything you're saying. the SR is not something I think people should be making 500+ mile trips with. If I had to do long trips like that all the time, the ER wouldn't be the right tool for the job either. Maybe the powerboost, maybe another EV truck.

You're also posting giant blocks of text that mix up complaints about a legitimate problem of not getting the expected amount of power out of your battery with just slamming Ford for even having an option of a battery that size because it doesn't suit your needs. It's impossible to address things in any sort of organized manner.

Final thought and then I'm done with this thread, instead of your "true justice" being just trying to discourage future sales, and "I don't need lawyers" I think it's great that your intent is to help people make an informed choice in the future, as it sounds like you weren't given the information for your own choice, but if there is a legitimate defect in the SRs, this doesn't help existing owners that might be stuck. That's why I recommended a class action in the first place. If you have enough data to get a class action suit started, you'll help a lot of others that are stuck. If you don't, you just sound like someone with buyers remorse.

 

[AI_Speed]

I just received my denial for my buyback request because they say that my ford did not meet the Texas lemon law standard when I brought it back 4 times for multiple issues and always for the battery pack not giving me range and having to be towed because of this issue. I guess a video of my truck flat towing a suburban to my ranch will need to be made to keep anyone who was on the fence about buying a 98KW Lightning would change their minds. I have the time and there are hotels along the way to be towed to if the range of the truck doesn't allow me to get to a charging station. Ford undersized their Lightning's standard battery and all of the other manufacturers are going to monopolize on this issue to sell their larger standard battery packed trucks. Hell, Chevy is supposed to be coming out with one that has a 200 KW battery at a price of $102,000. It is kind of high in price but you know that you won't have any problems making it to a charging station.

File with BBB - Ford denied me at the start w/47 days in service - I BBB filed and closed it out in 3 weeks $81k with Ford.

 

[dajohn3]

File with BBB - Ford denied me at the start w/47 days in service - I BBB filed and closed it out in 3 weeks $81k with Ford.

Thanks for the information. I will be taking you advise soon.

 

[dajohn3]

>It really sounds like you work for Ford.

They would fire me immediately for suggesting you sue them. I don't work for Ford, but I can't stand people spreading false statements.

> Now the only one trying to spread lies is you by telling everyone that you had no problems while driving 3300 kilometers on two different long trips because you are looking at 15 times of charging to 90 percent at around an hour each time and waiting for a charger some of the time.

Not sure who you think I am, but the only "long" trip I've taken so far was about 400 miles round trips, and I've never claimed to take my truck on anything I would consider long.

>Placing blame on me for buying the vehicle and blaming the dealership when the true problem is with Ford undersizing the battery pack is a bit ridiculous.

Again, not sure who you think I am but the only thing I'm placing blame on you for is spreading false facts about 98 kWh Platinum trims, and the ridiculous claims of the dealer being cut off from Ford.

>True range is what Ford needs to address

Ford doesn't rate the range, the EPA does. "True range" is what? There are so many factors that affect how far you can go, no matter what your power source is. The best you can hope for is "In a given condition you can expect to get X miles"


I think you're lumping me in to everyone else that's critical of your comments. I am critical of some, but not everything you're saying. the SR is not something I think people should be making 500+ mile trips with. If I had to do long trips like that all the time, the ER wouldn't be the right tool for the job either. Maybe the powerboost, maybe another EV truck.

You're also posting giant blocks of text that mix up complaints about a legitimate problem of not getting the expected amount of power out of your battery with just slamming Ford for even having an option of a battery that size because it doesn't suit your needs. It's impossible to address things in any sort of organized manner.

Final thought and then I'm done with this thread, instead of your "true justice" being just trying to discourage future sales, and "I don't need lawyers" I think it's great that your intent is to help people make an informed choice in the future, as it sounds like you weren't given the information for your own choice, but if there is a legitimate defect in the SRs, this doesn't help existing owners that might be stuck. That's why I recommended a class action in the first place. If you have enough data to get a class action suit started, you'll help a lot of others that are stuck. If you don't, you just sound like someone with buyers remorse.

Sorry for the mixup. I realize now that I went off on the wrong person by misunderstanding your intent. I am just hoping that posting will give the next prospective buyer enough information to make an informed decision about Ford's 98 kw battery pack and what they can do with the truck. When I first bought the truck, the furthest I could drive was 178 miles at 60 mph so I tried increasing the diameter of the tire from a 32.08 diameter to a 34.8 diameter which gave the truck an additional 18 miles to the range. This was my last ditch effort to be able to make it to a charging station flat towing my suburban to my ranch to have my mechanic work on the suburban to make it one of my ranch trucks. The dealership mechanic could not find anything wrong based on Fords technicians help from the Dearborn plant. The dealership's manager told me they can only do what Ford allows them to do on the EVs so everything falls back on the Ford EV plant for evaluating the battery pack. Whenever you have a problem they seem to want to make it the fault of the customer and that is why they denied my request for a buyback of the truck. A class action suit can only be filed after arbitration has failed so right now i will be putting in a BBB complaint so I can make it to arbitration. Like I said there are procedures in place and a vehicle owner needs to try all avenues before getting a lawyer because not all lawyers will take a case like this without having some upfront money. As for the data, ford cleared the data the first 2 times I brought the truck in when they replaced a couple of parts. The last two times I was told that there is nothing wrong with the truck. Right now I can say that I am starting to have buyer's remorse because it seems that Ford knows that their 98KW has problems but doesn't intend to do anything to fix it.

 

[invertedspear]

Sorry for the mixup. I realize now that I went off on the wrong person by misunderstanding your intent. I am just hoping that posting will give the next prospective buyer enough information to make an informed decision about Ford's 98 kw battery pack and what they can do with the truck. When I first bought the truck, the furthest I could drive was 178 miles at 60 mph so I tried increasing the diameter of the tire from a 32.08 diameter to a 34.8 diameter which gave the truck an additional 18 miles to the range. This was my last ditch effort to be able to make it to a charging station flat towing my suburban to my ranch to have my mechanic work on the suburban to make it one of my ranch trucks. The dealership mechanic could not find anything wrong based on Fords technicians help from the Dearborn plant. The dealership's manager told me they can only do what Ford allows them to do on the EVs so everything falls back on the Ford EV plant for evaluating the battery pack. Whenever you have a problem they seem to want to make it the fault of the customer and that is why they denied my request for a buyback of the truck. A class action suit can only be filed after arbitration has failed so right now i will be putting in a BBB complaint so I can make it to arbitration. Like I said there are procedures in place and a vehicle owner needs to try all avenues before getting a lawyer because not all lawyers will take a case like this without having some upfront money. As for the data, ford cleared the data the first 2 times I brought the truck in when they replaced a couple of parts. The last two times I was told that there is nothing wrong with the truck. Right now I can say that I am starting to have buyer's remorse because it seems that Ford knows that their 98KW has problems but doesn't intend to do anything to fix it.

Hang on a second, I know I said I was done with this thread. But is your complaint that the truck does not achieve the EPA range while flat-towing a suburban? Or that it's never able to achieve that range even when unladen?

 

[AI_Speed]

That's an awesome deal! Any details you can share on discounts and rebates to get to $56k?

Thank you - Ford for the $81k+ 2023 Lariat Repurchase. | Ford Lightning Forum For F-150 Lightning EV Pickup: News, Owners, Discussions, Community (f150lightningforum.com)

 

[dajohn3]

Hang on a second, I know I said I was done with this thread. But is your complaint that the truck does not achieve the EPA range while flat-towing a suburban? Or that it's never able to achieve that range even when unladen?

According to the motortrend F150 extended range chart you can only expect to achieve 34 percent of the range, on the low side, that your truck has depending on the speed at which you travel and when my range is 196 miles at 60 mph unladen you multiply 196 by .34 and you get around 67 miles of distance while towing with my truck on the low side. You have to travel a minimum of 40 mph on a freeway but the slower you go the more frustrated people get around you so I try to stay around 55 mph while towing. Considering that I will be traveling at 55 and getting a few more miles of towing distance to about 81 miles to 90 miles when I have a few legs of the trip that are 111/91/108/127/106 I will have a difficult time making it to these charging stations. The towing range right now is just hypothetical until I hook the truck up and actually tow the suburban next month. The actual range of my truck unladen dictates my ability to tow anything to the required distance of the charging stations. I don't know if you are aware of the fact that the Lightning loses a few miles of distance each time you fast charge it on the same day and if you need to continue on with your trip the second day my ford only gets around 87 miles at 90 percent charge. When your battery gets too hot you lose miles of range that is not indicated on your dash display and the driver needs to be aware of this fact. I had to find out the hard way by being towed a couple of times. So the fact right now is that my lightning will never achieve EPA/Ford stated range unladen and I believe that it will not make it to a charging station while flat towing 5000 lbs. when the distance between charging stations are over 100 miles apart. I will know for sure after I get my suburban to my ranch and then you will know because I will post the results. This theory of towing range is only based on my trucks range and the route I am taking to my ranch. I would get better results if the route to my ranch was level all the way there. I also found out that because the extended range has more horsepower the motortrend chart is overstated when trying to compare range with the 98KW battery pack so everyone's results with a 98kw will vary from the results stated for the extended range. Now the extended range gets around 150 miles of range towing 7000 lbs as per the videos I have watched but they are driving on a relatively flat surface and have more horsepower. I won't be driving on a flat surface so the range will fluctuate drastically because of the route and the lower horsepower making it a flip of a coin to get to the required distance of the charging stations. An extended range truck would make it to each of the charging stations with no problem while towing so if I had known of the true towing capability of the 98kw battery pack I would never of bought it and you all would have to find out on your own of its limitations. Why should the customer have to take all of the risk and have to keep a vehicle that doesn't meet the specifications that Ford has put out? I just want any prospective buyer to know what they are getting into by feeding them the results of my trips to my ranch to give real world information that makes them a more informed buyer. No truck should have a battery pack of less than 122 kw as a standard battery because in the real world the roads are not all level and people in Texas who have trucks use them as trucks.

 

[Newton]

I am happy with my SR, I am getting about 160 miles between fast charges on 1500 mile road trips where I don’t fast charge above 85% and don’t go below 20%. I have done three road trips like this and have had consistent results. I am not doing anything particularly special. These are not great range numbers compared to the EPA but it is not horrible and I have not had to be towed. It is a pickup and this is Ford, my ICE F-150 never got anywhere near the EPA mpg despite my various gas crisis tricks to try to improve it. That was the first vehicle that I have owned that I couldn’t get better (sometimes far better) than the EPA. The Lighting is the first (of my three) EVs that I can’t beat the EPA range, but it is a pickup.

Did I understand correctly that you put *larger* wheels on the Lightning? My understanding (and this seems to be borne out by other EVs) is that large wheels hurt range. Other EVs have modes that let you lower the chassis for better range on the highway.

For any of the trucks, if you are planning to do any sort of towing you should get an extended range unless you are really experienced with EVs. It has been fairly recent that we have had mainstream EVs that are even capable of any serious towing so there is going to be a learning curve for everybody Including the manufacturers. It is like getting the extended range tank on an ICE F-150 If you plan to tow. (Psst, look at the Chevy Silverado.)

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