Energy density

[vvgogh]

What's the lightning's energy density of the high voltage battery? I've seen some early references to an 1,800 lb battery. Does that correspond to the standard range vehicle's 107.6 kWh? If so, then it's 107.6 Wh / 818.18 kg = 131.5 Wh/kg - is that right?

I'm curious how this compares to some solar battery inverter systems primarily used as a buffer to recharge the high voltage battery from truck-roof mounted solar. I'm looking at the ecoflow Delta 3 Plus (27.6 lbs: 81.6 Wh/kg, 1000W solar), Delta Max (48 lbs: 92.4 Wh/kg, 800W solar), Yoshino B2000 (53.6 lbs: 107.2 Wh/kg, 600W solar) as potential buffer batteries. Those buffer battery energy densities numbers include (penalized by) the built-in solar MPPT, DC/AC converter, and casing in addition to their battery; this is a mass expense of the Lightning's inability to charge off solar directly in this comparison.

The high voltage battery will recharge the low voltage 12V. It's lame that doesn't work in reverse. I hope the next architecture generation will use a 48V low voltage battery and natively support charging the high voltage battery.

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[HOTAS]

The realities of roof mounted solar, 400 to 1000W systems,
are…..
30 to 65 sunny days for a full charge.

A respectable, but not portable, solar system would cost more than the truck itself.

Nothing new. Great science project, but portable solar is a joke.
Even the so called “solar” generators all offer “alternator“ chargers, that connect to your car, to make them legitimately useful. Of course they are no longer “solar”, but more effectively “gas” generators.

This guy discusses the reality…..



You could certainly build your own range extender pack, but the cost, again is not worth it, IMO. You’ll have an even heavier, less efficient truck, and you’ll have 2 battery “packs” to charge.

I personally think Ford hit a remarkable sweet spot with this electric truck and it’s way under appreciated.

 

[vvgogh]

The realities of roof mounted solar, 400 to 1000W systems,

You can fit about 1,000W above a smartcap and sticking a bit forward above the cab. As solar improves from 21ish to 25ish percent module efficiency, you start to push 1,200W in that same roof space. The 120V charger draws 1,440W. You'll get about 8h equivalent on a sunny summer solstice day max with a flat roof mount, 8-10 kWh. It'll of course be less than clear sky conditions on average. You'll net a 20-30% boost during a week of camping while powering all your electric cooking appliances.

A respectable, but not portable, solar system would cost more than the truck itself.

My 8 kW home system was $20k in '22. It produces 10.5 MWh/year. That's about 21,000 miles/year equivalent if solely used to propel the truck.

 

[lightspeed]

What's the lightning's energy density of the high voltage battery? I've seen some early references to an 1,800 lb battery. Does that correspond to the standard range vehicle's 107.6 kWh? If so, then it's 107.6 Wh / 818.18 kg = 131.5 Wh/kg - is that right?

I'm curious how this compares to some solar battery inverter systems primarily used as a buffer to recharge the high voltage battery from truck-roof mounted solar. I'm looking at the ecoflow Delta 3 Plus (27.6 lbs: 81.6 Wh/kg, 1000W solar), Delta Max (48 lbs: 92.4 Wh/kg, 800W solar), Yoshino B2000 (53.6 lbs: 107.2 Wh/kg, 600W solar) as potential buffer batteries. Those buffer battery energy densities numbers include (penalized by) the built-in solar MPPT, DC/AC converter, and casing in addition to their battery; this is a mass expense of the Lightning's inability to charge off solar directly in this comparison.

The high voltage battery will recharge the low voltage 12V. It's lame that doesn't work in reverse. I hope the next architecture generation will use a 48V low voltage battery and natively support charging the high voltage battery.

1800lbs is for the ER battery, so it's closer to 170Wh/kg which is pretty common for NMC lithium batteries of this generation. 1800 lbs includes the giant enclosure, and the individual module enclosures, and all the other battery stuff which adds up.

 

[vvgogh]

1800lbs is for the ER battery, so it's closer to 170Wh/kg which is pretty common for NMC lithium batteries of this generation. 1800 lbs includes the giant enclosure, and the individual module enclosures, and all the other battery stuff which adds up.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[HOTAS]

Here’s another motivated and interesting couple of guys. Living in the Tropics is an advantage too.

 

[vvgogh]

Here’s another motivated and interesting couple of guys. Living in the Tropics is an advantage too.

Their 330W x 5 is a bit much with today's panel efficiency. You can see it overhangs front and back significantly. How much added height is that? a foot? Let's see their next iteration.

1,000W today is more practical with far less overhang better fitting the truck's profile. Right now, I have a 250W New Powa adding very little height above my smart cap: 22mm unistrut + 35mm panel frame. New Powa 250W 2x2 are 117" x 69".

With emerging commercial 25% efficient panels (i.e. Aiko Neostar 3), that area would shrink the panel area to about 60x104" for the same 1,000W. We'll see if there's any better panel combinations for the lightning roof after some products are released this quarter.

 

[Scorpio3d]

Here’s another motivated and interesting couple of guys. Living in the Tropics is an advantage too.

Interesting I will give them an a for effort!
As far as practicality…. Maybe if you lived in Hawaii.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

You are on the right track. You do have to know what you really want.

Do you want Level 1 like charging over a few days to recover some small amount of charge, for example during camping trips?
Do you want to have the solar mounted on the vehicle all the time? Where on the vehicle?
Do you want a system that can charge your truck from solar while you're at a cabin (or wherever)?
Are you hoping for something more?

The solar you could carry in your truck will not provide enough voltage to charge the Lightning's battery without additional equipment (a DC-DC charge controller). The losses will be substantial. Don't bother. To get direct charging, you need ~400 volts closed circuit, which means you need about 20 panels with a closed circuit voltage of about 24 volts each.

However, carrying an auxiliary battery will allow you to charge the Lightning (or any other EV), given certain conditions. I'm working on a system for when we go boondocking. I've tested each part separately and those parts work. I need to do some live tests and practicality tests.

I have added ~5 kWh to the truck via a portable power station similar to the ones you mentioned, using a Level 1 charger.

This *will NOT* fully recharge the truck on our camping trips. But over several days, it could add about 5-20 kWh (or 10-60 extra miles), which will allow us to reach some of the more remote destinations we prefer.

If you can carry more solar, you can recharge the auxiliary battery more quickly and if you have a power station with passthrough charging, you can charge beyond the capacity of that auxiliary battery. More solar can be a pain if it isn't mounted to something properly. If it's hanging out in the wind, it can increase drag. Weight isn't a major concern.

Just note that this isn't about extending your range in the typical sense people think of extending range--it won't give you 380 miles range on one charge. It's about being able to get a little bit farther off the paved road or it's about having power at your remote, off-grid cabin, or about slow (and relatively free) charging of your truck at home.

If you have good sun, you can set up L1 charging of your truck for an initial cost of about $3k, depending on how much energy you want to bank for after dark charging. But it won't be L1 all day. Just L1 for 8-12, maybe 8-16 hours of the day on a good summer day in the desert southwest.

 

[vvgogh]

his isn't about extending your range in the typical sense people think of extending range--it won't give you 380 miles range on one charge. It's about being able to get a little bit farther off the paved road or it's about having power at your remote, off-grid cabin, or about slow (and relatively free) charging of your truck at home.

It’s like waking up to a gallon of gas appearing in your tank when you’re in the middle of nowhere.

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