Farley believes he knows how to beat the Chinese on EVs

[Newton]

All of this discussion about what an EV truck can do or not do overlooks the fact that the Lightning is a very mediocre attempt at an EV. They really did nothing to make it more efficient (such as a mechanism to disconnect the AWD when not needed or using a different type of motor) or to charge faster. Mine does not even have a heat pump, which even my e-Golf has! It was a great attempt at hitting the market first and I think it worked well, but you can’t really draw conclusions about what a modern EV truck can do from their experience. My E-Golf has a 120 mile range and can only be fast charged once a day at a low speed. Oh no, EV sedans can’t possibly work!

In contrast my EV6 charges in about 10 minutes in real life and does about 3.5-4.0 mi/kWh. I know it is not a truck but then you look at the Silverado and wonder why Ford can’t do that. Batteries are getting much less expensive as more lithium producers come online.

It annoys me a bit that the stuff that the Lightning “can’t do” has a lot of overlap with stuff that an F-150 shouldn’t do. The F-150 is marketed as a “tow your 30 foot airstream” truck but see what reaction you get if you pull into an RV lot with one. If you do serious towing, the F-150 is exactly the wrong truck. Putting a range extender on a Lightning isn’t going to turn it into an F-350 with a gooseneck.

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[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

It annoys me a bit that the stuff that the Lightning “can’t do” has a lot of overlap with stuff that an F-150 shouldn’t do. The F-150 is marketed as a “tow your 30 foot airstream” truck but see what reaction you get if you pull into an RV lot with one. If you do serious towing, the F-150 is exactly the wrong truck. Putting a range extender on a Lightning isn’t going to turn it into an F-350 with a gooseneck.

I did a search: this is what it says about pick up truck owners:
In the United States, pickup trucks are a major source of revenue for car manufacturers, and they account for a significant portion of total vehicle sales. However, most pickup truck owners don't use their trucks for work or hauling.

I agree, for towing, a 3/4ton or 1-ton is the truck of choice. I love my Lightning but I bought it for use near the home-base for home charging overnight (at 2.9Cents per kWh) not for long distance towing and Fast charging (at 42 cents per kWh). But like a lot of folks, I am sure I am not alone in having both EV and ICE vechicles at home, and picking the right one for the task at hand.

 

[Newton]

We got rid of most of our gas vehicles, we have one garage princess (that *I* wouldn’t mind selling) and a single cab long bed beater pickup for hauling rocks and garbage. It would be electric if something like that existed and cost less than $15,000. Driving gas is almost painful, certainly when I start up the garage princess I hear about fumes in the house.

For longer range I use the EV6, although it turns out that the really long trips are in the Lightning because it works fine for a relaxed trip. There is almost no difference on a long trip between driving the EV6 and the Audi Q5 that we used to have. Yes, you could refill the Audi much faster but the total time at the ‘station’ tends to be the same when all is done. We charge instead of a rest stop. If EV chargers were more crowded that might not hold, but Kia is releasing their Tesla adapter soon.

That I why I say that the Lightning is a mediocre EV (although a great truck). On long trips I feel just a little that I am playing the EV game that I used to play with the E-Golf, in the EV6 the EVness is just not a factor.

 

[Pro23-dead-at-960-miles]

The way forward is with better batteries like BYD, bringing ICE back is so dumb going backwards.

 

[NCevGuyF150]

This is a pretty good article about what direction Ford is taking in it's future EV development.



https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2025/02/21/ford-jim-farely-evs-china/78980633007/

I truly believe that the lightning didn’t sell well, because, they originally said it would be $39,000 starting price. I don’t think any new truck has ever sold for that amount. Instead, it was released during Covid when dealers were tacking on 10 grand. People were paying over $100,000 for a truck. Historically pick up trucks were an economical way for a family to have a second vehicle which was utilitarian. A husband could drive to work and leave the sedan for his wife and kids.
It was the price that led to poor sales. People can’t afford 15 and $1600 a month on a vehicle.

 

[VTbuckeye]

so, to achieve that it needs to be electronically fuel injected.
here comes all the digital controls and support. Sounds expensive.
And there‘s still the muffler and exhaust pipe thing and the gas tank thing and the EPA thing. How about a radiator and coolant for cooling.
Magically gonna stuff all that where?

Put it in the frunk? Then what do we have ? lol

An F150 power boost with a bigger battery and a smaller engine.
Oops, PHEV again nobody wants.

And the frunk was everyone’s favorite part of the Lightning !!!

As a former Volt owner I agree. Also should add...Why have electric heat when we have this gas fired heater. And then half of the country spends months with an EV that insists on running its ICE in short cycles while never getting really warm. And the smaller battery works harder and cycles more than a larger battery. I just got out of our last phev and we now have a 3 EV house.

ICE makes sense for some uses. We don't frequently do those things and can deal with the compromises of EVs. When we had phev we wanted the engine to run as little possible (which really isn't good for the engine), unless we really needed it. Give us enough battery and enough charging and we never need the ice.

 

[RickKeen]

The Lighting is a GREAT at these usages which are the most common usages of F150s:

Kid-hauling & Soccer-mom/dad duties.
Grocery-getting
HomeDepot Runs & Suburban House Maint.
Daily Commute / 2nd Vehicle.
AWD for on-road winter driving, gravel roads & parking.

Plus the following which it is good for as long as constrained to local range:
Light Towing within local towing range.
Recreational / Lifestyle to local locations
Trade / Fleet with local territory.

OK for occasional usage:
EV-style road trips.
Back-country trips to destinations with available charging (RV parks, cabins, etc).

What people wish it was that it is NOT:
3/4- ton, or 1-ton "Truck" payload, towing, and road-trip range and refueling convenience:
Cross-country RV tow vehicle.
Back-country trips plus toy hauler / towing
Snow plow truck.
Full-sized bed work truck.
Off-road / Jeep trails / rock crawler.
Trade / Fleet with large territory (across state or multi-state).

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

I truly believe that the lightning didn’t sell well, because, they originally said it would be $39,000 starting price. I don’t think any new truck has ever sold for that amount. Instead, it was released during Covid when dealers were tacking on 10 grand. People were paying over $100,000 for a truck. Historically pick up trucks were an economical way for a family to have a second vehicle which was utilitarian. A husband could drive to work and leave the sedan for his wife and kids.
It was the price that led to poor sales. People can’t afford 15 and $1600 a month on a vehicle.

They definitely hyped the truck during the release, and the early adopters plus the low quantity available lead to shameless over-MSRP pricing.
Now the tables are turned, and we the buyers' are in the Drivers' seat (finally) and with all the over supply sitting in plain sight on the dealer lots - and Ford cutting the MSRP 10,000 off the top, we can finally get the truck at well under MSRP - maybe not for long, with the production cuts. If you know someone interested in a Lightning - tell them to check it out quick !!

The other half of the equation, wages have not kept pace with costs, people are seeing the consequences.

 

[NCevGuyF150]

They definitely hyped the truck during the release, and the early adopters plus the low quantity available lead to shameless over-MSRP pricing.
Now the tables are turned, and we the buyers' are in the Drivers' seat (finally) and with all the over supply sitting in plain sight on the dealer lots - and Ford cutting the MSRP 10,000 off the top, we can finally get the truck at well under MSRP - maybe not for long, with the production cuts. If you know someone interested in a Lightning - tell them to check it out quick !!

The other half of the equation, wages have not kept pace with costs, people are seeing the consequences.

All of that is very true. One other thought that I had was if they could get a basic pro into the city garages for use on reading electric meters, water, meters and all of these trucks that just kind of sit on the road and idle for hours on end. It would save the cities tons of money in fuel cost. Also idling a vehicle is really hard on a transmission because they get hot without air coming through the coolant. Not to mention the money they would save on oil changes and disposing of used motor oil, etc.. I still think Ford should’ve perfected a basic F150 BEV. And then started adding all the bells and whistles.

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

A friend of mine lives East of my area, he told me his City has purchased a bunch of lightnings for use of city employees doing city-job things. Seems like some places are taking advantage of the low operating costs, and as you say, better use of energy than ICE idling all day sitting still - just to keep the cab warm/cool. I don't know if they bought basic models or what they got though.

Our cost of gasoline is high up here, but electricity is super cheap (lots of water running down hill) I have had the truck a bit over a week and already notice the huge difference in NOT buying gas every week. The cost per mile/km travelled is 20x higher with gasoline here than overnight-electricity charging.

 

[NCevGuyF150]

A friend of mine lives East of my area, he told me his City has purchased a bunch of lightnings for use of city employees doing city-job things. Seems like some places are taking advantage of the low operating costs, and as you say, better use of energy than ICE idling all day sitting still - just to keep the cab warm/cool. I don't know if they bought basic models or what they got though.

Our cost of gasoline is high up here, but electricity is super cheap (lots of water running down hill) I have had the truck a bit over a week and already notice the huge difference in NOT buying gas every week. The cost per mile/km travelled is 20x higher with gasoline here than overnight-electricity charging.

I totally agree. I was spending about 800 a month in fuel for my F150 5.0 4 x 4. Now I’m spending less than 200 a month on my power bill.

 

[Scorpio3d]

I think Ford got it right… for their first try at a F150 EV! I love my truck I have road tripped from Maryland to Georgia and then home to Texas on day one!-No problems charging 11 months ago and things have gotten better since. It is definitely one of my favorite vehicles that I have owned. ‘66 Mustang, ‘89 GT convertible, six or so expeditions and 2010/2018 Ford fusion hybrids.
I looked into getting the hybrid F150 as well as the Maverick hybrid, but as others have said, you still have to deal with all the maintenance, oil changes, etc. and the F150 is not very efficient so why would I buy a non-efficient hybrid?
Battery technology should get lighter and more dense… hopefully in the near future, and this would make it almost the perfect vehicle! They do need more processing power in the Sync system and possibly just in general!
Hopefully, they can succeed where the others have failed. I.e. become a technology company when you’re a legacy dinosaur, but it is all about profits and making the shareholders and dealers happy so they can make money too. It is not about the consumer(well I guess you could say they just want us to consume more!) this is the downside of our economic system. Don’t get me wrong. It is the best system, but it does have its downsides.
Ford (Farley) I hope you read this I think you were on the right track and hope you get back on it but don’t kill this vehicle. Just make it better!!!

 

[MotoGary]

The Lighting is a GREAT at these usages which are the most common usages of F150s:

Kid-hauling & Soccer-mom/dad duties.
Grocery-getting
HomeDepot Runs & Suburban House Maint.
Daily Commute / 2nd Vehicle.
AWD for on-road winter driving, gravel roads & parking.

Plus the following which it is good for as long as constrained to local range:
Light Towing within local towing range.
Recreational / Lifestyle to local locations
Trade / Fleet with local territory.

OK for occasional usage:
EV-style road trips.
Back-country trips to destinations with available charging (RV parks, cabins, etc).

What people wish it was that it is NOT:
3/4- ton, or 1-ton "Truck" payload, towing, and road-trip range and refueling convenience:
Cross-country RV tow vehicle.
Back-country trips plus toy hauler / towing
Snow plow truck.
Full-sized bed work truck.
Off-road / Jeep trails / rock crawler.
Trade / Fleet with large territory (across state or multi-state).

You nailed it Rick. In the process, you also highlighted my point on how Ford missed the target when marketing the truck. They should have targeted the customers in the top half of your list, instead they targeted those in bottom half.

 

[HOTAS]

So the Scout Prototype just hit Leno’s garage for a review.
The EREV version is stated to have 150 mile full EV range, and 350 ER. (500 total range).
What a joke.
Its gonna have a 4 cylinder gas engine hanging on the rear axle, and a 15 gallon gas tank.
That calculates out to about 23 mpg. Sounded noisy.
Can’t imagine what access to the engine must be like.
And what the handling must be like !

Just like I said, PHEV with all the drawbacks. Chevy Volt 3.0 that buyers never embraced. Who wants all that ICE hanging on the back axle sitting dormant unit you tow.…

No thanks, full electric for me. Long live the Lightning !
If I wanted/needed a gas truck, I’d buy a gas truck

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

It may be good for us (the ones with a Lightning already) to show the truck and what it does do well to other interested potential buyers - after all if the trucks don't sell well enough, then Ford will not keep making them...would be bad for us in the long run.
I can't tell you how many people have asked me about the new truck - in just the two weeks I have had it. There are a lot of people interested, they just have this idea that the Lightning is too expensive to buy.
I show them a quick set of costs: over a 5-year period an ICE or EV F-150 would cost me the SAME $$, and over a 10-year period the Lightning is HALF the cost of an ICE in my area (expensive gas, cheap electricity). Even with differences in insurance, tires, etc taken into account.

I think as Lightning owners, we should promote this vechicle to others - to ensure Ford supports it long term and keeps working on batteries and features long into the future.

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