Rachel Maddow's apolitical take on impact of the F-150 Lightning [WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[greenne]

This is gospel, for real (politics are not a here at all-watch it-I watched it live because someone knew I had a Tesla and told me she was doing this segment). She starts by letting us know the F150 is a bigger deal than anything we know. And it is. She notes HOW important this is, not for Ford, but for EVERYTHING beyond the 42 billion. If Ford pulls this off, she says, good bye gas cars.

We have all heard hyperbole. But she's right. If Ford gets this right, it will be an explosion. I like how she points out that the only thing that matters is----- Is this a better truck? If it is, game over.

I own a Tesla. It is better than any car by far I have ever driven. Not even close. I've had BMWs etc... It is better by far. I am not a fan boy (I am trading it in for my Lightning). IT's better.

So, if I feel the same way about this truck as I do about my Tesla, well, the world will change. She's right-there is a lot on the line.

Said it before, I'll say it again. I really see where Ford is going with their business strategy. I think (and hope) it will be successful. Everyone else is introducing radical new designs-- Tesla, Rivian, Hyundai/Kia, even GM to a point.

Not Ford. Ford has decided to capitalize on brand loyalty and legacy by electrifying the old favorites. Its a way to convince the skeptics to go EV. Many people stick with the classics..the Mustang, the f150, the Explorer, the Escape, etc. I anticipate Ford will have massive success in electrifying the next generation of these nameplates and giving people more features in the vehicles they love-- better acceleration, handling, cheaper cost of operation, power generation, etc. . Its just a smart move on Ford's part.

It may take them a few years...but I am predicting Ford will overtake Tesla at some point as the #1 EV manufacturer due to volume and breadth of model lineup. Ford can compete(and win) in segments that Tesla cannot-- Trucks, SUVs, Vans, etc. If demand really takes off...Ford can scale at a level Tesla cannot--converting ICE factories to EV. Tesla is playing the short term stock game..Ford is playing the long game.

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[beatle]

While I'm not one to stump for Tesla, they build new factories because they've calculated retrofitting is not worth the investment. Not sure why you think Tesla is playing the short game. I think they're the only EV-only manufacturer that's not hoping for a buyout. Batteries are going to be key to production capacity, and Tesla is miles ahead. If batteries weren't such a tight commodity I think Ford would be pushing out a lot more Lightnings this year.

I will be very interested to see what Ford's second truck is. While I am buying a Lightning this year, it's really too big for me. I look forward to seeing how far a slightly smaller truck with a "controversial design" can go on an even smaller battery. If batteries remain a sticking point, offering a truck that goes further on a kwh of juice will let Ford sell more vehicles. I still think Ford is smart for doing the Lightning first, but I hope for a capable, smaller EV truck to come soon.

 

[Ken]

Ford's next EV should be an expediton based on the lightning frame. An electric SUV would be huge. The Tesla X was an overengineered too-small failure and the Y is still too small. I'm hoping for an all electric XC-90 or something of that size or I'll probably just get the Rivian SUV.

 

[greenne]

While I'm not one to stump for Tesla, they build new factories because they've calculated retrofitting is not worth the investment. Not sure why you think Tesla is playing the short game. I think they're the only EV-only manufacturer that's not hoping for a buyout. Batteries are going to be key to production capacity, and Tesla is miles ahead. If batteries weren't such a tight commodity I think Ford would be pushing out a lot more Lightnings this year.

I will be very interested to see what Ford's second truck is. While I am buying a Lightning this year, it's really too big for me. I look forward to seeing how far a slightly smaller truck with a "controversial design" can go on an even smaller battery. If batteries remain a sticking point, offering a truck that goes further on a kwh of juice will let Ford sell more vehicles. I still think Ford is smart for doing the Lightning first, but I hope for a capable, smaller EV truck to come soon.

The reason why I say Tesla is not playing the long game is they have failed(or do not have the ability) to expand their portfolio and have pinned their hopes on turning out massive amounts of model Y. The Cybertruck is years behind schedule and while it appeals to the Tesla fanbase, it misses the mark with a vast audience of both fleet and public truck buyers. Quite frankly, design wise its just too polarizing. Their products are already starting to look old design wise. They have very few new products in the pipeline--other than the cybertruck they are hyping the roadster which is niche product and too expensive for most of us.

In 5 yrs what will Tesla's lineup look like? What will Ford's EV lineup look like?

Batteries are great..but you have to have a compelling vehicle to put them in.

Just my opinion..I guess we'll all see what happens in the next 5yrs which I think is going to be make or break time for the EV marketplace.

 

[beatle]

For as polarizing as the Cybertruck design is, it still had over 1.2 million reservations before Tesla pulled the plug on new ones. Fanboys notwithstanding, there is clearly more to truck buyers than fleet buyers and the good ol' boys. We'll also see just how far Ford departs from traditional truck designs with their new truck. Farley has already announced that their next truck design will be "controversial," and my hat is off to him for exploring advancement of the platform at the risk of alienating fans of the tried-and-true brick platform. Tesla's deployment schedule for the Cybertruck is indeed a joke though. Nobody but the biggest Tesla stan would attempt to defend that.

The 3 is only 4 years old, the Y is 3 years old, and the S and X were just moderately refreshed late last year. I'm sorry you don't like the designs, but demand for the smaller vehicles does not seem to be waning. Change for the sake of change is a bad idea (yes, I'm also looking at you, Tesla yoke wheel). To double-down on my point about batteries - there is little point in making new vehicle launches on paper if the capacity to fill all of them is far behind. If anything is a short stock game, it's manufacturers with paper launches, low-volume, boring compliance vehicles, and "promises to electrify by 20X0" To Ford's credit, they are keeping a reasonable production schedule of only 1 year on the Lightning, as promised. I hope they continue that consistency with their next platform.

I think EV make or break may also be related to charging infrastructure in the coming years, but I don't want to get too far off topic here...

 

[greenne]

For as polarizing as the Cybertruck design is, it still had over 1.2 million reservations before Tesla pulled the plug on new ones. Fanboys notwithstanding, there is clearly more to truck buyers than fleet buyers and the good ol' boys. We'll also see just how far Ford departs from traditional truck designs with their new truck. Farley has already announced that their next truck design will be "controversial," and my hat is off to him for exploring advancement of the platform at the risk of alienating fans of the tried-and-true brick platform. Tesla's deployment schedule for the Cybertruck is indeed a joke though. Nobody but the biggest Tesla stan would attempt to defend that.

The 3 is only 4 years old, the Y is 3 years old, and the S and X were just moderately refreshed late last year. I'm sorry you don't like the designs, but demand for the smaller vehicles does not seem to be waning. Change for the sake of change is a bad idea (yes, I'm also looking at you, Tesla yoke wheel). To double-down on my point about batteries - there is little point in making new vehicle launches on paper if the capacity to fill all of them is far behind. If anything is a short stock game, it's manufacturers with paper launches, low-volume, boring compliance vehicles, and "promises to electrify by 20X0" To Ford's credit, they are keeping a reasonable production schedule of only 1 year on the Lightning, as promised. I hope they continue that consistency with their next platform.

I think EV make or break may also be related to charging infrastructure in the coming years, but I don't want to get too far off topic here...

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Tesla has arguably had the success they have had because up until now they offered 1. Supercharging(which was brilliant BTW) and 2. The only real compelling EV vehicle with usable range. Remember a few years ago all we had was the Leaf and the Bolt. The eTron came along but was severally hampered by range. Now that there are compelling alternatives out there we'll see how Tesla stacks up. They are no longer the only game in town.

As far as Cybertruck goes, I will argue that Ford could have very easily got 1M reservations if they tried. *IF" the Cybertruck ever gets to market we'll see how many of those reservations translate to actual orders. Many made reservations when there were no alternatives(before they knew about Lightning, Rivian) and others have a reservation for CT, Lightning, Rivian at the same time with the intention of only ordering one of them--phantom orders. Yes, there are also Tesla purists who will only get a Tesla and I say good for them.

All the design language dates back several years with minimal years. Will the aero blob remain popular..we'll see I guess.

https://www.businessinsider.com/teslas-designs-over-the-years-ranked-from-best-to-worst-2020-2

 

[EaglesPDX]

The environmental benefits are an added bonus.

They are why Ford built it and why it is a game changer.

It goes to the heart of global warming problem, addressing a vehicle type that is a high pollution vehicle and transforming it into a zero emissions vehicle. It does it by giving that market demographic a BETTER vehicle on their terms, faster, more powerful, high status associated with ownership even though many of buyers reject the reason it exists vs. the ICE's they have been buying.

 

[greenne]

They are why Ford built it and why it is a game changer.

It goes to the heart of global warming problem, addressing a vehicle type that is a high pollution vehicle and transforming it into a zero emissions vehicle. It does it by giving that market demographic a BETTER vehicle on their terms, faster, more powerful, high status associated with ownership even though many of buyers reject the reason it exists vs. the ICE's they have been buying.

Lets face reality... the reason MOST people are going to buy this truck has nothing to do with the environment. It has to do with the coolness(the "new" factor). the features inherent to EVs(power, torque, performance) and lower fuel cost.

Sadly most people don't give a damn about the environmental impact...

 

[beatle]

Now that there are compelling alternatives out there we'll see how Tesla stacks up. They are no longer the only game in town.

Here here. Though it may seem like I'm putting up a fight for Tesla, they've lost me as a customer this time around and I have tens of thousands of dollars on the line that Ford will do a good job. I agree that the next few years are going to be exciting for EVs, and I am looking forward to even more choice.

Lets face reality... the reason MOST people are going to buy this truck has nothing to do with the environment. It has to do with the coolness(the "new" factor). the features inherent to EVs(power, torque, performance) and lower fuel cost.

Sadly most people don't give a damn about the environmental impact...

I didn't buy my Tesla for the environment. I bought it because it's a good, fun, capable car, but the environment wins no matter the motivation. You can only get so far into the auto market by greenwashing your products with an environmental angle. Heck, some people may actually avoid anything that has "eco" in the name or mission statement. At the end of the day, a company selling EVs wants to win over buyers any way they can. As you said, now that the capabilities of EVs are starting to not just keep pace with gas, but outpace them (sometimes by a large margin), people are shopping for EVs that wouldn't have otherwise chosen them, so notch a few more "W's" for the environment.

 

[greenne]

Here here. Though it may seem like I'm putting up a fight for Tesla, they've lost me as a customer this time around and I have tens of thousands of dollars on the line that Ford will do a good job. I agree that the next few years are going to be exciting for EVs, and I am looking forward to even more choice.



I didn't buy my Tesla for the environment. I bought it because it's a good, fun, capable car, but the environment wins no matter the motivation. You can only get so far into the auto market by greenwashing your products with an environmental angle. Heck, some people may actually avoid anything that has "eco" in the name or mission statement. At the end of the day, a company selling EVs wants to win over buyers any way they can. As you said, now that the capabilities of EVs are starting to not just keep pace with gas, but outpace them (sometimes by a large margin), people are shopping for EVs that wouldn't have otherwise chosen them, so notch a few more "W's" for the environment.

I agree on both points. I just think it will be interesting to see if people will choose the build quality issues(and somewhat bland interior) of he Tesla when compared to a comparable Mercedes EQS, BMW iX and Lucid.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Lets face reality... the reason MOST people are going to buy this truck has nothing to do with the environment.

Which is why it is such a game changer. Though it does give those in that demographic who are concerned about the environment but are constrained by their social set not to say that an excuse to be proactive on the environment.

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