Trump order freezes funding for Illinois EV charging network

[Jim Lewis]

Look at the other end of the Manhattan Project, though. Eighty years after its inception, the nuclear waste from the Manhattan Project still hasn't been properly disposed of. It's still sitting around in holding casks, etc., in various areas in the country.

BTW, one of the best books I've ever read is The Making of The Atomic Bomb by Richard Rhodes. It won a Pulitzer Prize.

The Making of the Atomic Bomb by Richard Rhodes won the Pulitzer Prize for Biography or Autobiography in 1988. The book is a detailed historical account of the development of the atomic bomb during World War II and the scientific, political, and ethical issues surrounding its creation.

When I bought it in a Los Alamos bookstore, I thought it would be dry and boring, but it became a page-turner for me as I read it. YMMV. This following highly rated Amazon review of the book might be a bit hyperbolic but I basically felt the same way about the book. The book is really about how the A-bomb came out of the history of the early 20th century (and before): Still the definitive history; exhaustive, epic and utterly gripping

When the private sector messes up they suffer. When Gov't messes up Taxpayers suffer. That's the difference.

Everyone can suffer when either the private sector or the government messes up. To say only a business suffers when it messes up, just ask some Ford Lightning owners about that.

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[luebri]

BTW, one of the best books I've ever read is The Making of The Atomic Bomb by Richard Rhodes. It won a Pulitzer Prize.

Thanks, sounds interesting. I'll put it on my list.

Everyone can suffer when either the private sector or the government messes up. To say only a business suffers when it messes up, just ask some Ford Lightning owners about that.

Certainly true, but more often than not my statement is much truer than false.

P.S. I appreciate you Jim, always good discussion and appreciate your perspective.

 

[Jim Lewis]

@luebri, I'm waiting for you to get the 10.3 update and BC 1.4 because, in the past, for a while, I'd get the same updates as you about a week later! Here's hoping....!

 

[luebri]

@luebri, I'm waiting for you to get the 10.3 update and BC 1.4 because, in the past, for a while, I'd get the same updates as you about a week later! Here's hoping....!

For sure, Let's hope I recover from my 10.3 fail quickly! Being towards the front of the line and setting the pace has been fun!

 

[potato]

I pity the poor sap who comes in here looking for news about the Illinois EV charging network

 

[Jim Lewis]

I pity the poor sap who comes in here looking for news about the Illinois EV charging network

I think the point of the OP post was not to inform on the Illinois Charging Network per se but to elicit the very discussion that's taken place, whether the government should be involved in charging networks in the first place and whether, once involved, a charging network should be a political football. People have engaged in very civil exchanges relative to that and cited other examples of pros and cons of relying on government vs. free enterprise, etc. To excuse my introduction of The Making of The Atomic Bomb, it's a great example of something epic happening not because of itself per se but because of the socio-political context of the time. The same consideration could be applied to EVs and their charging networks. They may succeed or fail, not based on any free-enterprise merits or government intervention, but rather on the current socio-political context of the U.S.

It's great that the admins allow this discussion. Everyone would agree their Lightnings would be "more better" if there were more extensive charging networks. So, the discussion is about whether government intervention one way or the other should occur and whether it's really going to be the difference maker in the end.

 

[Brons2]

Ok, I find this a bit ironic and I feel makes my point regarding Government waste and bloat. It took only 3-4 years for the Manhattan project stem to stern 80+ years ago, yet now our Government cannot effectively install rather basic DC electrical equipment in mass in less than that time frame. It can barely get through the approval process in that time frame! Ridiculous!

Are we really comparing the wartime Manhattan Project to EV charger installation? Not just any war either, but one that required pretty much total engagement of the populace, either on the front lines or in factories?

There's also the fact that, there wasn't going to be any expense spared or stone left unturned in the pursuit of the goal of getting to the atomic bomb before the enemy.

And pretty much zero political opposition. The hardest part was keeping the big money hole a secret.

My grandfather served in the Pacific in WWII and fully supported the bomb. He was an engineer who was often dropped on burning ships as part of repair teams. I miss him.

My grandmother also flew planes out of the Douglas factory in Long Beach to delivery locations. They didn't meet until after the war. I have her military service picture behind my desk.

Anyway...nostalgia...

 

[CavRider]

Yep we disagree. Good conversation.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts regarding the free market response to delivering high speed internet to low population sections of the country. As far as I am concerned this infrastructure is just as necessary today as roads. And fuel replenishment for vehicles.

 

[luebri]

Look at the other end of the Manhattan Project, though. Eighty years after its inception, the nuclear waste from the Manhattan Project still hasn't been properly disposed of. It's still sitting around in holding casks, etc., in various areas in the country.

BTW, one of the best books I've ever read is The Making of The Atomic Bomb by Richard Rhodes. It won a Pulitzer Prize.



When I bought it in a Los Alamos bookstore, I thought it would be dry and boring, but it became a page-turner for me as I read it. YMMV.



Everyone can suffer when either the private sector or the government messes up. To say only a business suffers when it messes up, just ask some Ford Lightning owners about that.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts regarding the free market response to delivering high speed internet to low population sections of the country. As far as I am concerned this infrastructure is just as necessary today as roads. And fuel replenishment for vehicles.

use starlink (but that wont be popular on here because of the bad man)

 

[CavRider]

The ideal system is a free market with proper oversight for consumer protection and limit corruption.

NEVI got off track from the get go because of delays in releasing funds to states, states needs to do RFP processes, listening to “stakeholders” and all that other fun things that come with the government. So the main issue was the layers. It would have been easier and faster to have DOT or DOE manage the grants specifically.

This is all your opinion which you would be terminally challenged to prove. Its fine to have an opinion but please don't make the error of treating is as "fact".

MY opinion is that EV public charging is Public Infrastructure just like roads and bridges and at this point in time (bootstrapping) it should be managed by federal government. They might choose to contract out builds and/or management to private enterprise in markets where sufficient ROI can be met for those companies and their shareholders.

I think this is the best way but please don't ask me to prove it. I can't.

 

[CavRider]

use starlink (but that wont be popular on here because of the bad man)

That would be fine if you just wanted to stream content. Non-starter for interactive sessions though.

 

[luebri]

Are we really comparing the wartime Manhattan Project to EV charger installation? Not just any war either, but one that required pretty much total engagement of the populace, either on the front lines or in factories?

There's also the fact that, there wasn't going to be any expense spared or stone left unturned in the pursuit of the goal of getting to the atomic bomb before the enemy.

And pretty much zero political opposition. The hardest part was keeping the big money hole a secret.

My grandfather served in the Pacific in WWII and fully supported the bomb. He was an engineer who was often dropped on burning ships as part of repair teams. I miss him.

My grandmother also flew planes out of the Douglas factory in Long Beach to delivery locations. They didn't meet until after the war. I have her military service picture behind my desk.

Anyway...nostalgia...

Thanks for sharing the story of the your grandparents service, I am very grateful to all that have ever served. Certainly the unity at that time was amazing.

That said, regarding the comparison. The last administration and many that are very fearful about the purported negative effects of climate change have stated it is an immediate and existential threat. Yet their (previous administrations) urgency on this money which they passed to help against that threat sure was inadequate.

 

[Grease Lightning]

This is all your opinion which you would be terminally challenged to prove. Its fine to have an opinion but please don't make the error of treating is as "fact".

It is a fact that the ideal system is a free market. The challenge is corruption, intimidation, safety, and such often warrants the government to intervene in areas. Likewise those independent oversight entities get filled with “yes men” for industry to limit their effectiveness.

Once the government gets involved, sadly their presence creeps from one of good intentions, to one that can bleed into market manipulation.

As a government employee, I face that problem everyday as the program I manage is one that is strictly safety, but others often what us to “help” so and so, “why does it matter” for someone else. While me and my staff constantly hold to our mission and treat everyone the same, other don’t share our beliefs which makes it harder to provide a service that is above repose and one that doesn’t seem like we treat other differently based on their wallet or influence. BTW the wort is other government entities as they at times feel rules shouldn’t apply to them.

MY opinion is that EV public charging is Public Infrastructure just like roads and bridges and at this point in time (bootstrapping) it should be managed by federal government

I agree that there is public interest and benefit. If you read my earlier posts, I am not opposed to the subsidies for the chargers, rather the large brush stroke approach, in the ideal situation they determine the areas of most public interest for traveled areas where the ROI for a charger needs taxpayer money to make it pencil.

Like in Oregon we are filling in areas that have coverage, but could benefit with more, but the areas that have one charger (50kW and often down and has a defunct company’s equipment) for more than 100 miles on a federal hwy is slated for round 3, so might not happen.

Then another federal hwy that leads to Nevada has no chargers slated on it with NEVI funds and has no DCFC for more that 200 miles. Those are the areas I see could benefit from tax payer assistance, as the need is there, but the demand will likely not pencil for private only investment.

Remember ideal and reality never fully work. Sometimes an ideal system needs a push, the challenge is finding the balance of a push and then let the market work again.

 

[Zprime29]

Agree. There needs to be a referee. Without it, the free market is naturally driven to monopoly or profits over safety which ends up hurting us all in the long run.

*cough cough Boeing cough cough*

 

[Grease Lightning]

Like in Oregon we are filling in areas that have coverage, but could benefit with more,

I will add one more frustration on this one. For “efficiency” the same vendor is selected for the entire corridor. So say Tesla had perfect coverage over the rest of the I-5 corridor, but wanted to only place one station meeting NEVI requirements to add coverage or replace an old V2 site, they didn’t qualify.

So sadly our state’s “process” potentially limited people interest or eligibility.

And while I appreciate new people entering the market, one of the vendors chosen is new to our area, so yet one more app if I want to track things.

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