Unknown Wire harness by OBDII

[jamelski]

Ford credit but never asked for or told it was installed. Dealer no response so I’ll trash it if they don’t get back to me.

Sponsored

 

[Ish]

Potentially Ford is installing these from the factory, note the REV on the original pic; it could be a coincidence but REV is the Ford code for Rouge Electric Vehicle factory. My google search of Spireon brings up a sponsored Ford ad for their Ford Pro telematics. Maybe Ford is putting these in all new builds but I would hope they are disclosing this, I’ll be checking my October ‘23 build this evening.

 

[Mashedtators]

Maybe Ford is putting these in all new builds but I would hope they are disclosing this, I’ll be checking my October ‘23 build this evening.

Just checked my 2023 and it’s clean

 

[jamelski]

Potentially Ford is installing these from the factory, note the REV on the original pic; it could be a coincidence but REV is the Ford code for Rouge Electric Vehicle factory. My google search of Spireon brings up a sponsored Ford ad for their Ford Pro telematics. Maybe Ford is putting these in all new builds but I would hope they are disclosing this, I’ll be checking my October ‘23 build this evening.

Trash if they are. They don’t need them. Ford can ping the built in Gps if they want when they want

 

[Hank42]

I found one on my 22'. But it was not wired like that, looked more like a bt odb2 dongle, except it had an lte Sim inside.

 

[PrimeRisk]

Ford credit but never asked for or told it was installed. Dealer no response so I’ll trash it if they don’t get back to me.

Oh, I have a much better idea for you. I'm heading to Spain in a couple weeks and will be renting a car. Would you like it to suddenly appear somewhere in Europe?

FWIW, I am financed on my Lightning through FMC and have checked...I don't have one of these. In addition, why would Ford need one of these as they can see where the truck is located at all times. Sure, you can disable connectivity in the menus, but in all reality it would be simple enough in software to disable it for all user functions, but still keep it on for Ford's purposes of data collection. It'd be pretty damn easy to to do that. The only way you can ensure that your vehicle isn't tracked by Ford is to find the actual telematics module and physically disconnect it. None of us really know how Ford may be collecting information on us. I've read Ford's published privacy policies and there is lots of room where they could be collecting all types of data on you legally...and let's face it, it wouldn't be the first time a large company was caught collecting and selling information on their customers that they said they wouldn't.

 

[jamelski]

Oh, I have a much better idea for you. I'm heading to Spain in a couple weeks and will be renting a car. Would you like it to suddenly appear somewhere in Europe?

FWIW, I am financed on my Lightning through FMC and have checked...I don't have one of these. In addition, why would Ford need one of these as they can see where the truck is located at all times. Sure, you can disable connectivity in the menus, but in all reality it would be simple enough in software to disable it for all user functions, but still keep it on for Ford's purposes of data collection. It'd be pretty damn easy to to do that. The only way you can ensure that your vehicle isn't tracked by Ford is to find the actual telematics module and physically disconnect it. None of us really know how Ford may be collecting information on us. I've read Ford's published privacy policies and there is lots of room where they could be collecting all types of data on you legally...and let's face it, it wouldn't be the first time a large company was caught collecting and selling information on their customers that they said they wouldn't.

I already went to the hood of Sacramento plugged in back in waited like 10 mins then unplug and trashed it .

 

[chl]

Mine is clean. All I have is the OBD device I added for the Virginia Mileage Choice program that bases the EV highway use fee (proof that no good deed goes unpunished) on the actual miles driven. It should save me my money that would otherwise go to pay for roads torn up by people who drive a fudge of a lot more than I do and pay for it at the pump while polluting the air I have to breath...yada yada yada...


"...Our roads connect us. They take us to our jobs and to visit our family and friends. They are vital to Virginians’ quality of life.

Virginia’s roadways are maintained, in part, through taxes drivers pay at the gas pump. As more drivers switch to fuel-efficient and electric vehicles, they buy less gas; that means less money to help maintain Virginia’s vital thoroughfares.

To make up for the shortfall, the Virginia General Assembly instituted the highway use fee in 2020.

Paid at the time of vehicle registration, the highway use fee ensures more equitable contributions to the Commonwealth’s highway system from users of fuel-efficient and electric vehicles. The legislation also created the Mileage Choice Program, a mileage-based alternative to the annual highway use fee...."

https://vamileagechoice.com/index.php

 

[HaroldCal]

All I have is the OBD device I added for the Virginia Mileage Choice program

I understand the appeal, but I've always seen these sort of programs (like the insurance version offered by Progressive, etc) akin to voluntarily boarding the shiny new cattle car so you can be at the front of the line for the gas chamber. Ok, maybe that's a little dramatic, but it's the first example that came to mind. My point being that voluntary programs are just the test basis for what will become mandatory programs. And maybe you are OK with this one (the carrot). But right around the corner is going to be us all getting charged per mile for driving (the stick), both by the state as well as our insurance companies. Mandatory speed limiters (see the bill passing through the Cali legislature right now), etc etc. Minority Report was not supposed to be an instruction manual.

 

[chl]

I understand the appeal, but I've always seen these sort of programs (like the insurance version offered by Progressive, etc) akin to voluntarily boarding the shiny new cattle car so you can be at the front of the line for the gas chamber. Ok, maybe that's a little dramatic, but it's the first example that came to mind. My point being that voluntary programs are just the test basis for what will become mandatory programs. And maybe you are OK with this one (the carrot). But right around the corner is going to be us all getting charged per mile for driving (the stick), both by the state as well as our insurance companies. Mandatory speed limiters (see the bill passing through the Cali legislature right now), etc etc. Minority Report was not supposed to be an instruction manual.

I see the 'down-side' to privacy issue...but do you use a cell phone? Do you drive a vehicle with GPS? Do you drive a car with a computer that records recent vehicle events?

The answer is probably yes, so already privacy has been given away tacitly for the advantages those things offer.

As far as the road use fees, basing it on miles driven is 'fairer' to every one. Probably should be in combination with axles and gross weight. If that was established everywhere, there would be plenty of money for highway, bridge, etc. maintenance and repair, and distributed based on use and abuse.

Why should people who drive little subsidizes people who drive more? It's what they call the free-rider principle in economics.

We all pay more insurance because of the few bad actors who cause accidents by driving drunk or speeding excessively.

Just last night on the way to the hospital to visit my wife, some punk in a white BMW came down the highway behind me at what I estimate to be over 80mph and missed hitting the back of my car by inches. So close my car actually swayed in the wake. He was weaving in and out as if it was a video game. Death on the highway is not a game I want to play.

The OBD device I installed keeps track of driving parameters like speed, stopping at stop signs etc. But I am ok with that because I drive carefully. The info is used to give you a score, I shoot for 100%. The info is NOT shared with anyone else, like insurance companies or law enforcement according to their privacy policies.

My wife does not score 100%. She rolls through stop signs and speeds. Of course I warn her about that all the time. And just the other day, she got a $100 speeding ticket! Dang it!

Anyway, I have a wife, children and grandchildren who matter to me so I don't risk my life out on the highway. I live in a neighborhood with children so I don't risk their lives by speeding etc. on neighborhood streets.

We all have given up a lot of privacy to live in this society, I know there should be limits to that and to how the info is used. A malicious government could certainly misuse information. But since the demise of J Edgar that kind of abuse, warrant-less searches, etc., has subsided quite a bit. We have had a secret court FISA for many years and after 911 it was expanded. Secret courts are a dangerous thing, but there is a balancing between national security and transparency that goes on all the time.

Anyway, as an attorney and electrical engineer, I see things a bit differently from many other people. I like the logic and predictability of engineering. As for the law, the legal system is far from perfect, very far, and there is room for reform and improvements, absolutely.

Our Constitution, in theory, should protect us from government abuses - sometimes that takes a lot of time to play out unfortunately. Some guilty people with enough money stay out of jail, while some innocent people who do not have those resources end up in jail for a long time, even a lifetime.

That is the problem I worry about, not a voluntary program that places a GPS OBD device in my truck that'll save me money.

But I can understand and I respect other people's different opinions.

As they used to say in driver's ed, a drivers license is a privilege not a right, and if abused can be taken away. Driving a vehicle on public roads is the same.

If people want to engage in dangerous driving, find a race track on private property and go for it, eh?

 

[HaroldCal]

I see the 'down-side' to privacy issue...but do you use a cell phone? Do you drive a vehicle with GPS? Do you drive a car with a computer that records recent vehicle events?

The answer is probably yes, so already privacy has been given away tacitly for the advantages those things offer.

As far as the road use fees, basing it on miles driven is 'fairer' to every one. Probably should be in combination with axles and gross weight. If that was established everywhere, there would be plenty of money for highway, bridge, etc. maintenance and repair, and distributed based on use and abuse.

Why should people who drive little subsidizes people who drive more? It's what they call the free-rider principle in economics.
...
If people want to engage in dangerous driving, find a race track on private property and go for it, eh?

I wasn't actually trying to make the case for privacy, because as you stated (and much to my chagrin) that horse has already left the barn. Doesn't mean I won't try to restore privacy in what ways I can, but it's not the point I was raising in this one.

But you did cover what I was getting at, which is the road use fees side of it, and the notion of the free rider. I think there is a non-obvious benefit to the current/past methodology of road taxes. By building it into the fuel taxes, it roughly made the heavier users pay more of the road taxes, and that was fair without being invasive or too nickel+dime. It was a good balance. The economy benefits from folks not feeling like they need to count every single mile against a counter that accumulates to a bill from the govt or insurance co. Whether that is in the form of consumers being able to spontaneously go out to dinner or run to the grocery store, or businesses that can use the road much more, without getting absolutely crushed under the weight of being nickel+dimed for every mile. I'd equate it to if every road was a toll road, would it have a chilling effect on freedom of movement?

Ultimately, us consumers still pay for those road taxes that are fronted by the businesses, one way or another.

I know that with the shift to EVs, we need to have a new way to fairly distribute the burden for the road taxes. I get that. And I don't have a better answer. I just know that supporting the mile-by-mile GPS method feels like ringing a bell we can't unring. Seems like there has to be a better way, without conceding more of our freedom to govt control.

Oh, and I'm definitely not endorsing dangerous driving. But this feels an awful lot like giving up essential liberty for a feeling of safety.

 

[chl]

I wasn't actually trying to make the case for privacy, because as you stated (and much to my chagrin) that horse has already left the barn. Doesn't mean I won't try to restore privacy in what ways I can, but it's not the point I was raising in this one.

But you did cover what I was getting at, which is the road use fees side of it, and the notion of the free rider. I think there is a non-obvious benefit to the current/past methodology of road taxes. By building it into the fuel taxes, it roughly made the heavier users pay more of the road taxes, and that was fair without being invasive or too nickel+dime. It was a good balance. The economy benefits from folks not feeling like they need to count every single mile against a counter that accumulates to a bill from the govt or insurance co. Whether that is in the form of consumers being able to spontaneously go out to dinner or run to the grocery store, or businesses that can use the road much more, without getting absolutely crushed under the weight of being nickel+dimed for every mile. I'd equate it to if every road was a toll road, would it have a chilling effect on freedom of movement?

Ultimately, us consumers still pay for those road taxes that are fronted by the businesses, one way or another.

I know that with the shift to EVs, we need to have a new way to fairly distribute the burden for the road taxes. I get that. And I don't have a better answer. I just know that supporting the mile-by-mile GPS method feels like ringing a bell we can't unring. Seems like there has to be a better way, without conceding more of our freedom to govt control.

Oh, and I'm definitely not endorsing dangerous driving. But this feels an awful lot like giving up essential liberty for a feeling of safety.

I told my rep they could collect a road use fee without a GPS program by merely using the mileage at vehicle inspection (a VA requirement). But they went with a private company doing the use monitoring. Whatever.

So it is actually a penny a mile for EVs, and less for Hybrids like my wife's Prius ($00.0056 per mile). They put it on a credit card. Your deposit $15 and then the deduct the use fee each month from that. When the deposit falls below $10 they add another $15.

When the cumulative use fees reach the yearly limit (based on 11,500 miles of driving) no more fees. If we used less than the yearly limit we keep the $ we would have otherwise paid VA at registration for that year.

They yearly limit is about $115.00 for an EV and about $65 for a hybrid.

We use a credit card with rewards so we get some benefit back.

It is painless and not a ton of money for us.

The gas tax at the pump is nickle and dime, per gallon.

The use fee at registration each year is not chump change for an EV, unless $115 qualifies.

Anyway, until the program was started tow years ago, I and all other VA EV drivers were paying the max use fee on our EVS (my 2012 Leaf) even though not going to drive it 11,500 miles that year.

A lot of us think we should be REWARDED for not polluting the air with exhaust when we drive somehow, rather than be required to pay a road use fee. The tax credit does that, but our contribution to clean air might be worth more than a one time $7500 credit. Because of the income limitation, in 2012 when I filed I did not get the whole $7500 anyway.

But I can see how paying something to maintain the roads is a social good, and I am a part of society.

But I think it is fairer to pay for the use one actually gets each year than a flat fee no matter the use.

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