What am I missing?

[world2steven]

Not impressed with Sol Ark's technical support! My electrical knowledge is about as minimal as you can get. From what I've been able to determine, there are two types of generators: bonded neutral & floating neutral. It would appear most portable generators are bonded neutral for safety reasons. Since the Lightning's 'generator' (240V output) is bonded neutral, as long as it is correctly connected to the Sol Ark's generator port, what is the problem. In Sol Ark's documentation, they recommend two transfer switches. The tech support guy I talked with had no idea whether they switched the neutral and no apparent interest in finding out.

So if I have my Sol Ark wired for a bonded neutral generator, what can go wrong? The Sol Ark guy said 'if anything, you are on your own buddy.' The Lightning has ground fault detection and I presume protection. So if I had to buy another inverter (it wouldn't be Sol Ark), it wouldn't be that big a deal.

One would think Ford would by now realize their tie-up with SunPower was 'ill-advised' and be more willing to assist Lightning owners in taking advantage of the Lightning's vehicle-to-home capabilities. Since Sol Ark won't do it, is there any possibility I could get assistance from Ford engineers in validating the connection to Sol Ark's inverter?

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[Leroyjac75]

Best bet is to call Ford and get your answer…

 

[Henry Ford]

I can't speak to your situation but I can vouch for the ground fault detection system in the Lightning. If it says there's a ground fault it's because there's a ground fault. Whether that's because your system doesn't switch the neutrals or there's a ground fault in your house wiring somewhere is the question.

I installed a basic, neutral switching sup-panel and got the ground fault error message until I hunted down a fireplace fan that was miswired. Finding the issue was super tedious but super satisfying once I was able to plug in the truck and have it work.

I don't know how my experience relates to your situation, except that I wouldn't bother with Ford or Sol Ark. If you know what you are doing you will figure out what's going on. If you don't, an experienced electrician should be able to come up with a troubleshooting plan.

 

[Amps]

any possibility I could get assistance from Ford engineers in validating the connection to Sol Ark's inverter?

You could try. But, I doubt Ford is going to be able to help you because of liability and inability to be on-site where the problem is. Sunrun is their V2G partner and they distribute the Ford logo Delta V2G hardware. How would an engineer at Ford be able to support Sol-Ark hardware?

As @Henry Ford kind of pointed out above, it ain't the truck throwing the ground fault. The truck is detecting a ground fault. It may be in the way your equipment is handling the transfer of the ground or it may be in your home.

Try searching this forum for: Generac 6854 or Generac 6853

https://www.amazon.com/Generac-6854-Upgradeable-Transfer-Aluminum/dp/B00V4NDFPY

 

[world2steven]

Thanks for all the replies. I should have been clearer. I don't have a problem yet and don't 'know what I am doing'. But I talked with an electrician yesterday who does. I do know what I would like to do - and I suspect what a lot of people with existing battery backup systems and generator-capable hybrid inverters would like to do.

With a standard generator the Sol-Ark is able to recharge the battery backup system as well as supply power directly to my home grid from that generator as well as the battery backup system. I would just like to use the Lightning's 'generator' like a standard generator. The electrician yesterday noticed a possible problem - the absence of a GEN Start Signal (Two-Wire) connection that would presumably come from SunRun's HIS. He is investigating the use of a signal from the Tigo emergency stop system required for solar installations here in Arizona.

My heartburn with Sol Ark and maybe Ford is that all this seems like pretty standard electrical engineering and vendors who know what they are doing (again, I make no pretensions) should be able to offer more guidance.

 

[Amps]

I would just like to use the Lightning's 'generator' like a standard generator.

If you find the Generac 6854 threads on this forum as suggested, you will find posts from people who have successfully made it happen using a neutral switching transfer switch.

A lot of us just use extension cords.

 

[Henry Ford]

Thanks for all the replies. I should have been clearer. I don't have a problem yet and don't 'know what I am doing'. But I talked with an electrician yesterday who does. I do know what I would like to do - and I suspect what a lot of people with existing battery backup systems and generator-capable hybrid inverters would like to do.

With a standard generator the Sol-Ark is able to recharge the battery backup system as well as supply power directly to my home grid from that generator as well as the battery backup system. I would just like to use the Lightning's 'generator' like a standard generator. The electrician yesterday noticed a possible problem - the absence of a GEN Start Signal (Two-Wire) connection that would presumably come from SunRun's HIS. He is investigating the use of a signal from the Tigo emergency stop system required for solar installations here in Arizona.

My heartburn with Sol Ark and maybe Ford is that all this seems like pretty standard electrical engineering and vendors who know what they are doing (again, I make no pretensions) should be able to offer more guidance.

I don't understand what you are trying to do. The 30 amp outlet in the bed is very simple. If there's no ground fault it will work. There's no getting around that. I've seen the use of a transformer suggested but no one has posted about actually doing it here.

 

[world2steven]

If you just draw power from the Lightning’s 240v port, tapping the Lightning’s battery for power appears to be straightforward – with several possibilities for solving the bonded neutral problem. However, for those of us who have solar with battery backup systems, at least my objective is to use the Lightning’s battery as a supplement to a smaller battery bank, a ‘generator’ if you will, in an extended grid outage.

In addition to supplementing a smaller battery bank, the Sol Ark has the capability to recharge it using a generator. I assume most other hybrid inverters that support both batteries and generators have that capability as well. Maybe not by Ford but certainly by columnists, the Lightning has been billed as the equivalent of 10 Tesla PowerWalls – for about half the price (as of 2022 anyway); plus you get a free truck.

The personal advantages of this capability are probably obvious for most forum readers. But it may pay to list a few social and business reasons for supporting it.

• In case you haven’t heard, there is a severe shortage of the resources and manufacturing capabilities for battery production that is expected to last for years if not decades (which if you believe some climate scientists we may not have)
• Using what resources are available to support both the transition to renewable energy and electrifying transportation makes more sense than tying them up in personal battery backup systems which if you believe utility promises may never be needed – as long as you allow them to keep raising rates to support system reliability.
• Assuming a hybrid inverter is required to support both battery backup and generator capabilities, once people take the plunge getting them to spring for solar should be a lot easier.
• From a business perspective, the best antidote for range anxiety is an extended range battery. It is hard enough to get people to part with the money for a standard range EV battery. The ability to get a ‘two-fer’ might make it a little easier.

 

[Henry Ford]

If you just draw power from the Lightning’s 240v port, tapping the Lightning’s battery for power appears to be straightforward – with several possibilities for solving the bonded neutral problem. However, for those of us who have solar with battery backup systems, at least my objective is to use the Lightning’s battery as a supplement to a smaller battery bank, a ‘generator’ if you will, in an extended grid outage.

In addition to supplementing a smaller battery bank, the Sol Ark has the capability to recharge it using a generator. I assume most other hybrid inverters that support both batteries and generators have that capability as well. Maybe not by Ford but certainly by columnists, the Lightning has been billed as the equivalent of 10 Tesla PowerWalls – for about half the price (as of 2022 anyway); plus you get a free truck.

The personal advantages of this capability are probably obvious for most forum readers. But it may pay to list a few social and business reasons for supporting it.

• In case you haven’t heard, there is a severe shortage of the resources and manufacturing capabilities for battery production that is expected to last for years if not decades (which if you believe some climate scientists we may not have)
• Using what resources are available to support both the transition to renewable energy and electrifying transportation makes more sense than tying them up in personal battery backup systems which if you believe utility promises may never be needed – as long as you allow them to keep raising rates to support system reliability.
• Assuming a hybrid inverter is required to support both battery backup and generator capabilities, once people take the plunge getting them to spring for solar should be a lot easier.
• From a business perspective, the best antidote for range anxiety is an extended range battery. It is hard enough to get people to part with the money for a standard range EV battery. The ability to get a ‘two-fer’ might make it a little easier.

How would you like to get the power from the battery to your truck? The bed outlet is the only feasible way I am aware of.

 

[world2steven]

I probably don't understand your question. The power flow is always going to be from the truck's battery to my home grid or for recharging a small bank of AGM batteries. Power going to the truck will be from chargers, my own or commercial fast chargers.

If you don't use SunRun's HIS, I agree the only feasible way to tap the Lightning battery is through the 240v bed outlet.

 

[Henry Ford]

I probably don't understand your question. The power flow is always going to be from the truck's battery to my home grid or for recharging a small bank of AGM batteries. Power going to the truck will be from chargers, my own or commercial fast chargers.

If you don't use SunRun's HIS, I agree the only feasible way to tap the Lightning battery is through the 240v bed outlet.

Okay, so we're on the same page I think. You want to your truck the same way a lot of us do, for backup power. Your system is more complex than most but the bottom line is the F150 will not provide power if there is a ground fault. If you plug it into your panel without switching the neutrals on every powered circuit it will ground fault because your neutrals are bonded to ground at your main panel, like every (code) house in the country.

It sounds like you want a generator with a floating neutral. That's not this truck.

 

[world2steven]

I already have the truck - and solar with a battery backup system. I'm just looking for the best way to integrate the two.

 

[Leroyjac75]

You can check with your favorite certified electrician about 240v circuits… a neutral is not used in the circuit - just the two phases and the ground.

the truck provides neutral to support two phases of 120v circuits…

So not using neutral on your extension from the truck to the transfer panel or 240v connector should stop the truck from warning of a ground fault on the neutral circuit…

I am not an electrician so consider my statement with the recommendation you discuss this with your electrician.

 

[TaxmanHog]

PLEASE CONSULT CERTIFIED ELECTRICIAN

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