White House releases plan to build nationwide network of 500,000 EV chargers

[techguydave]

So does Biden

I don't disagree with you there.

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[shutterbug]

1,000,000 Teslas prove that to be wrong. They need and use the chargers.

No! They prove no such thing. Just because you chose to get an EV without planning, does not mean that everyone should. DCFC is expensive to deploy and maintain and does the battery no good during repeated daily use. They are great when used for long trips (particularly since there are no alternatives), but not for normal daily use.

 

[EaglesPDX]

DCFC is expensive to deploy and maintain and does the battery no good during repeated daily use.

And completely necessary for EV's. Everyone from Musk to GM to Ford to EU to China has come to same conclusion on deployment of fast DC charging system, it's essential and has to lead EV deployment. Discussions here with people considering an EV for the first time also confirm, it's all about range issues and finding charging.

As for expensive to deploy, a four pump gas station costs about $500k, a ten stall charging station about $250k. Insurance and operating costs are much less, no buried gas tanks, no attendants.

Many of the gas stations will morph into charging stations since they are already located where traffic requires them, provide bathrooms and food, are located near other food and service shops.

We'll have a hybrid gas/electric market for a decades, gas and charging stations.

 

[Sklith]

Many of the gas stations will morph into charging stations since they are already located where traffic requires them, provide bathrooms and food, are located near other food and service shops.

In America it's already slowly happening. Wawa reached 50 locations with Tesla Superchargers a couple months ago. In Europe and China, it's already happened.

 

[EVBill]

And completely necessary for EV's. Everyone from Musk to GM to Ford to EU to China has come to same conclusion on deployment of fast DC charging system, it's essential and has to lead EV deployment. Discussions here with people considering an EV for the first time also confirm, it's all about range issues and finding charging.

As for expensive to deploy, a four pump gas station costs about $500k, a ten stall charging station about $250k. Insurance and operating costs are much less, no buried gas tanks, no attendants.

Many of the gas stations will morph into charging stations since they are already located where traffic requires them, provide bathrooms and food, are located near other food and service shops.

We'll have a hybrid gas/electric market for a decades, gas and charging stations.

What I am surprised to not be seeing is nationwide high volume truck stops like Flying J and Loves rolling out installation of DC fast charging stations for many of the above reasons. This type of approach that would put DC fast charging stations immediately off of interstates makes the most sense. Many of the DC fast charging stations I have seen installed near me have by EA in Walmart parking lots and Chargepoints in Harley Davidson dealerships. They really need to be targeted where someone is going to roll right off the interstate, plug in to charge, get a meal and or snacks after a restroom break during the time of charging.

 

[EaglesPDX]

They really need to be targeted where someone is going to roll right off the interstate, plug in to charge, get a meal and or snacks after a restroom break during the time of charging.

They mostly are right off interstates, even my local ones, both EA (Target, Fred's) and Tesla (Mall, Freds). That makes it easy for locals dependent on them for full time charging and for travelers.

 

[shutterbug]

And completely necessary for EV's. Everyone from Musk to GM to Ford to EU to China has come to same conclusion on deployment of fast DC charging system, it's essential and has to lead EV deployment. Discussions here with people considering an EV for the first time also confirm, it's all about range issues and finding charging.

DCFC are necessary for long trips. They are not necessary for regular around town driving. You keep conflating the two but these are not the same use cases. We need them on highways, outskirts of towns and rural areas. We don't need them downtown.

As for expensive to deploy, a four pump gas station costs about $500k, a ten stall charging station about $250k. Insurance and operating costs are much less, no buried gas tanks, no attendants.

A DCFC installation is about $100K per plug. It grows significantly if you need to provide power to it. It will grow a lot more if the demand for 350W chargers becomes a real thing. Also no one cares about the cost of deploying gasoline pumps. These are being reduced even without considering growth of EVs. We have too many of them already. Your attempt at red herring fell flat. L2 stations are much more useful, and cost a lot less, and require a lot less infrastructure. In some situations (airport parking lots) L1 J1772 outlets may be appropriate. Also, as EV adaption grows, we could see combo L2 EVSE and parking meter.

Many of the gas stations will morph into charging stations since they are already located where traffic requires them, provide bathrooms and food, are located near other food and service shops.

Gas stations will morph into whatever, as they have been doing for decades. On an intersection next to me there used to be 3 gas stations. One remains, the other two are now bank branches. These will disappear with time too (who needs so many bank branches?). If you travel along highways, you will see plenty of former gas stations that were simply abandoned.

 

[EaglesPDX]

They are not necessary for regular around town driving

They are if you don't have home charging.

"...about 70-80% of charging occurs at home or at a workplace parking lot."

That percentage will increase as EV's become more affordable.

As for full time DC charging being bad for the battery, it is but if you stick to 10%-85%, the effects are minimal. My battery degradation is 12% after 75,000 miles and two years of exclusive DC charging. Normal would be about 6%. My usage has been extreme with a lot of 0% capacity where it can't pre-condition. Could probably cut the degradation to 8% vs. 12% if I had stuck to 10/85 rule.

Just life in the EV lane for the 20-30% without home charging.

 

[shutterbug]

They are if you don't have home charging.

As has been pointed out to numerous times, the people who don't have L2 charging at home or work, need to work out a way to use L2 charging. Full time DCFC is a bad solution.

 

[jefro]

Why would you want Texas to have to follow some other state's rules?

 

[Nick Gerteis]

As has been pointed out to numerous times, the people who don't have L2 charging at home or work, need to work out a way to use L2 charging. Full time DCFC is a bad solution.

Still beats a polluting gas car, thumbs up from me to everyone thoughtful enough to sacrifice a little bit of convenience for a greater societal good.

 

[EaglesPDX]

As has been pointed out to numerous times, the people who don't have L2 charging at home or work, need to work out a way to use L2 charging.

Leaving the car overnight at a charging facility, Lyfting home at night and then back to the car in the AM, doing that every day. Doubt anyone will do as that.

L2 is impractical if not someplace other than home or work that you are going to be for 10 hours. None really exist now for someone who wants to own an EV.

Those of us in that situation use fast DC charging because it is faster and much more practical. The battery degradation issue can be minimized.

EV Consumer Behavior

 

[shutterbug]

Leaving the car overnight at a charging facility, Lyfting home at night and then back to the car in the AM, doing that every day. Doubt anyone will do as that.

Lyfting? Seriously? The solution is to install L2 chargers in apartment parking log/garage, or even on the street. Wherever the car is parked overnight, that's where the chargers should be.

L2 is impractical if not someplace other than home or work that you are going to be for 10 hours. None really exist now for someone who wants to own an EV.

DCFC really doesn't exist in those places where you seem to want them. Until last month, nearest CCS charging location to my home was about 22 miles away. L2 chargers are cheaper to install/maintain, and can be installed wherever cars are parked. They can be installed at private homes, office parking lots, park and ride lots, apartment/condo lots, shopping centers, movie theaters, and even on streets.

 

[shutterbug]

Still beats a polluting gas car, thumbs up from me to everyone thoughtful enough to sacrifice a little bit of convenience for a greater societal good.

Not sure anyone has actually done the work of comparing cost and benefits of DCFC vs L2 charging. This has nothing to do with polluting gas cars.

 

[EaglesPDX]

The solution is to install L2 chargers in apartment parking log/garage

Let them eat cake. If they could have, they would have. Nice to have home charging but for the 40% who can't and for all the travelers we'll need a network of DC fast chargers at about a 100 cars to 1 charger ratio using Tesla model.

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