Would I still qualify for current federal rebate?

[cvalue13]

People. I reached out to my dealer to get a sales agreement in case there was a time limit to the new law. Here is thier response.


Hello Andre, this is ____________ at El Cajon Ford. I read your email and wanted to respond to you. We do not do any purchase contracts on any vehicles until they are actually here on our dealership lot. Many of the forums are putting misleading information about the new tax credit law.
The new tax credit that was just signed by President Biden pertains to vehicles purchased after December 31, 2022.
Here is a copy of the legal jargon: "Transition provision for EVs with written sales orders dated in 2022 prior to the date of President signing the bill but delivered in 2023 allows purchaser to claim the “old” credit in 2023.".
Let me know if you need anything else.
Regards

Funny, that their “legal jargon” is quoting a website …

Whatever the *actual* answer is, this person doesn’t seem to know it

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[metroshot]

People. I reached out to my dealer to get a sales agreement in case there was a time limit to the new law. Here is thier response.


Hello Andre, this is ____________ at El Cajon Ford. I read your email and wanted to respond to you. We do not do any purchase contracts on any vehicles until they are actually here on our dealership lot. Many of the forums are putting misleading information about the new tax credit law.
The new tax credit that was just signed by President Biden pertains to vehicles purchased after December 31, 2022.
Here is a copy of the legal jargon: "Transition provision for EVs with written sales orders dated in 2022 prior to the date of President signing the bill but delivered in 2023 allows purchaser to claim the “old” credit in 2023.".
Let me know if you need anything else.
Regards

That did not make sense....

 

[Roy2001]

Your conclusions asserted here might still lead to some confusion. Just one clarification (not sure if others are needed): it is definitely not true that nothing goes into effect until 1/1/2023 - as just one example, the North American manufacturing rules go into effect upon signing by the President (which is why Fisker is presently offering “binding contracts” to customers with orders). The manufacturing limit of course doesn’t effect the F150L.

As relates to OP, the outcome may be the same but wanted to make the clarification in case it runs contrary to assertions being seein elsewhere (that equivocate on the manufacturing limitation as reason to say the bill “goes into effect” when signed by the President.



When does the income cap take effect?

To be just a little clearer, the “enactment date” is the date it is signed by the President, not the “after 12/31/22” effective date of the broader bill.

So, from and after the President’s signature (only a week or two away), there are at least a few things that change for EVs generally (less effect the F150L specifically).

For EV’s not manufactured in North America, to elect (on your 2022 taxes) to qualify under the old tax credit, you must have a “binding” contract before the President signs. This does not effect the F150L.

But what could theoretically effect the F150L buyer is the old tax credit’s 200K cap, but only if Ford reaches its cap before the last day of September, 2022. The reason the September date is relevant is this: the 200k cap allows credits for any car purchased within the calendar quarter a manufacturer hits the 200k sale; accordingly, if Ford doesn’t reach its 200k sale until October 1 (the beginning of Q4), then Ford will be eligible for the old tax treatment through the end of 2022 and the effective date of the new bill on Jan 1, 2023.
If instead Ford reaches its cap before the last day of September then: (1) people who took delivery before the last day of September will still get the full credit, and (2) people who take delivery from Oct. 1 through end of Q4 will not receive the full $7,500 but instead take the reduced roll-off credit amount (~$4k?).

In all, while I’m still struggling to understand some parts of the bill and so not as confident as earlier posters, it does seem that F150L orders that are delivered before 12/31/22 are unlikely to see any changes if they want to elect into the old bill.

For those taking delivery after 12/31/22, exactly how they are effected is likely to turn on details coming out of the IRS’s interpretations and rule-makings.

HOWEVER, the at-dealer REBATE in the new bill does not roll on until 2024. That means any F150L owner taking deliver in 2023 will not “feel” the new bill except by way of a tax credit in their 2023 taxes.

On one hand, this means people taking delivery in 2023 will have plenty of time to come to understand how the new bill will effect their tax treatment in 2023.

Ok the other hand, it means people fretting over the application of their $7,500 situation under this new tax bill should understand that it is not going to change your purchase price or financing, and the benefits of any tax credit won’t be realized fully until cutting your final 2023 tax bill (likely months unto 2024).

Then how about the 150k/300k limit? Effective immediately?

 

[cvalue13]

Then how about the 150k/300k limit? Effective immediately?

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...-for-current-federal-rebate.11646/post-243143

Very little of the new bill appears to go into effect upon signing, the material exception being the North American manufacturing requirement (why Fisker and others are with certainty scrambling for “binding orders”). A few parts don’t go into effect until the Secretary issues guidance (due no later than 12/31/22).

the less certain bit is whether the current version of the bill continues at all after the bill is signed, or if instead there is a gap wherein no bill applies between signing and 1/1/23

 

[bydabeach]

For what it's worth, Reuters story (linked below) says:

" New restrictions on battery sourcing and critical minerals, along with price caps and income caps, take effect on Jan. 1, which will potentially make all current EVs ineligible for the full $7,500 credit. "

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...mble-decode-new-us-ev-tax-credits-2022-08-12/

Green car reports:

"Caught in transition


But there is one exception, called the Transition Rule that could help more people claim the credit—albeit in a way that could be a wash based on dealer markups.


As the bill lays out (on page 394), the Transition Rule allows the previous tax credit to only those taxpayers who “before the date of enactment of this Act” have “purchased, or entered into a written binding contract to purchase, a new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle” and placed it in service on or after the passage of the act.


That will hinge on state rules regarding purchases, which vary somewhat on what is considered legally binding in a vehicle purchase. In most cases, if not all, a deposit that is also considered a down payment toward final delivery of the vehicle is binding, but a pre-order deposit to get in queue is not. "

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...-ev-tax-credit-now-before-it-expires-for-2022

For anyone who has placed two deposits and has a production date, a "reservation deposit" of $100 was paid, and and "order deposit" of $500 was paid. Sound like what Green car reports said, the order deposit can be considered a down payment toward final delivery of the vehicle and binding. My dealer had me sign the order and provide a copy of my drivers' license when I paid the order deposit.

Not going to worry about the various ways this could be interpreted and dissected.

 

[Technoman]

I'm really wondering if Ford will qualify under the new rules. I guess the IRS and other really intelligent government people will be interpreting for a bit and let us know the details. I think I'll build a new spreadsheet to tinker with all the variables.
Cheers

 

[Drayday55]

That's what I thought. Didn't Biden sign the bill already? So regardless I'm purchasing, signing, whatever.. after the signing but before 2023?? It's no use stressing though. Whatever is gonna happen is gonna happen

 

[bydabeach]

That's what I thought. Didn't Biden sign the bill already? So regardless I'm purchasing, signing, whatever.. after the signing but before 2023?? It's no use stressing though. Whatever is gonna happen is gonna happen

Biden has not signed the bill.

 

[cvalue13]

I'm really wondering if Ford will qualify under the new rules.

I haven’t heard if Ford’s batteries qualify under the 40% materials sourcing requirement. At least for 2023, that seems like the only provision that could DQ their vehicles (that are below the price caps).

 

[ExCivilian]

But what could theoretically effect the F150L buyer is the old tax credit’s 200K cap, but only if Ford reaches its cap before the last day of September, 2022. The reason the September date is relevant is this: the 200k cap allows credits for any car purchased within the calendar quarter a manufacturer hits the 200k sale; accordingly, if Ford doesn’t reach its 200k sale until October 1 (the beginning of Q4), then Ford will be eligible for the old tax treatment through the end of 2022 and the effective date of the new bill on Jan 1, 2023.
If instead Ford reaches its cap before the last day of September then: (1) people who took delivery before the last day of September will still get the full credit, and (2) people who take delivery from Oct. 1 through end of Q4 will not receive the full $7,500 but instead take the reduced roll-off credit amount (~$4k?).

The current law is full credit during the quarter the manufacturer sells 200K EVs, one additional quarter of full credit, then two subsequent quarters of half credit, and finally two additional quarters of quarter credit--totally five quarters of full/partial credit in all.

the less certain bit is whether the current version of the bill continues at all after the bill is signed

I'm certain that no current versions of the bills would continue after the bill is signed because it will then no longer be a "bill" but rather a "law."

I haven’t heard if Ford’s batteries qualify under the 40% materials sourcing requirement.

The language is dense enough that every time there's a discussion about it I have to go back through and read the whole dang thing! In any case, whether it's part or instead of the 40% sourcing, there seems to be some provision of assemblage of the battery being stateside, which SK Innovations is. Again, I don't know whether that supersedes the 40% requirement or if it's in addition to it or a completely different section because I'm not going to try another slog through that bill for a bit.

 

[MickeyAO]

Good thing I kept my Lariet ER under $80k even with all the experts on this forum who told me BBB was dead from the start and no way this would EVER happen! Sticker with the extra $100 for delivery shows $79,764, and I'm under the $300k for income.

Now the only question is can I get my wife a Kia EV6 before Bidon signs the bill or will it even matter for this year?

 

[cvalue13]

The current law is full credit during the quarter the manufacturer sells 200K EVs, one additional quarter of full credit, then two subsequent quarters of half credit, and finally two additional quarters of quarter credit--totally five quarters of full/partial credit in all.

yea this was covered already later in the thread. Ford apparently hit cap this quarter, so would have applied to any sales the remainder of ‘22

I'm certain that no current versions of the bills would continue after the bill is signed because it will then no longer be a "bill" but rather a "law."

You dingbat.

The language is dense enough that every time there's a discussion about it I have to go back through and read the whole dang thing! In any case, whether it's part or instead of the 40% sourcing, there seems to be some provision of assemblage of the battery being stateside, which SK Innovations is. Again, I don't know whether that supersedes the 40% requirement or if it's in addition to it or a completely different section because I'm not going to try another slog through that bill for a bit.

I was referring to the battery minerals requirement which kicks in 1/1/23 - I wasn’t wondering about the bill, but instead the qualifying mineral composition of Ford’s batteries

 

[cvalue13]

Good thing I kept my Lariet ER under $80k even with all the experts on this forum who told me BBB was dead from the start

havent you long ago taken delivery? If so, none of this applies to our trucks

 

[Technoman]

We won't know Sh*t till they sift through it ......But I'm thinking my order for the XLT 2 days ago will fit the "transition" part.....

 

[cvalue13]

Now the only question is can I get my wife a Kia EV6 before Bidon signs the bill or will it even matter for this year?

this is a posture that seems clearer: theNorth American assembly portion of the law becomes effective upon the signing by the President, subject only to the safe harbor for those with a “binding” order before such signing by the President

this posture, apparently, is why Fisker and a few other foreign-assembled EVs are offering non-refundable deposit/orders

assuming the KiaEV6 is not assembled in NA, the growing consensus appears to be you’d need a “binding” order (whatever that means - nobody knows yet) before the President signs, to best hedge

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