You can't get there from here.

[Knickell]

I agree. Electric vehicle charging is a far cry away from the convenience and amount of time it takes to fuel up a gasoline powered vehicle. It will likely get there over the next several years with how these big companies are deciding that it’s the proverbial wagon they want to hitch their horse to, and invest billions of dollars in.

It may get there, but it doesn’t seem likely anytime soon.

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[astricklin]

True. The Apple "it just works" appeal of Tesla (especially if you have the lifetime free option, which I have on my Model X) is a slam dunk compared to futzing around with Chargepoint or the other "networks".
But – big BUT – Ford and other car vendors have solved this by working a deal with the charging vendors. So it really is just plug-in-and-charge. If the vehicle has the latest hardware, it's possible for the charging station to recognize the vehicle and then there's no payment step, making it equal to the Tesla arrangement.
Another "but" is what you mention about operational equipment. It's become common to find some Tesla pedestals don't deliver the full 150 or 250kW and some just don't work or are physically broken (the pins can wear out or be abused.) Of course if there's more than 4 people at an 8 pedestal location, someone has to "share" power between their pedestal and another "paired" pedestat, so while the car might be willing to drink down 100kW+, the system offers up maybe 50 or 70kW.
It's also common to get to an EA station that malfunctions with one car and works with another … obviously frustrating and tedious but also an end of the road for a road trip if you don't have enough range to get to another location.
I've been there in the Tesla … arriving at a location just before a desert crossing (Winnemucca to Elko, Nevada, about 120 miles which, at 80 mph, eats up all of an 80% charge in a Model 3 Performance) only to find three out of four stations occupied, the vacant one was broken and there were two other people waiting. Fortunately the delay was only 30 minutes or so, but in freezing weather, well, it was not a great start to a 1000 mile trip … : )
I think these "early days" problems go away over the next five years, but not as soon as the next two years as the first electric trucks arrive by the tens of thousands … and people with trucks tend to want to load up and go somewhere … it's going to be a shock to the system.

From what I have seen with the mach-e, plug and charge isn't working very well with the EA network. I'm sure it will get better but at least right now, I don't think I would rely on it and it seems that using the EA app is a much better experience. Also, I know with EA, you can pay a monthly fee to get a lower fee for charging. Currently there is no way to attach your charging network membership to your Ford account so you have to pay full price if using plug and charge.
For a lot of people, the charging network advantages (perceived or real) that Tesla has are a major selling point for the brand.

 

[TRP]

From what I have seen with the mach-e, plug and charge isn't working very well with the EA network. I'm sure it will get better but at least right now, I don't think I would rely on it and it seems that using the EA app is a much better experience. Also, I know with EA, you can pay a monthly fee to get a lower fee for charging. Currently there is no way to attach your charging network membership to your Ford account so you have to pay full price if using plug and charge.
For a lot of people, the charging network advantages (perceived or real) that Tesla has are a major selling point for the brand.

Plug and charge worked fine for us. I used the 250kw Ford gave with the purchase and had no issues with it working. Now I am using the EA Plus+ membership to qualify for the cheaper charging rate. To me, there's no real difference between the 2 other than the rate you pay. Both are equally easy to use.

P&C just required to plug in and make sure everything went fine.
EA takes a swipe fo my phone to initiate charging.
Either way it works for me

 

[astricklin]

Plug and charge worked fine for us. I used the 250kw Ford gave with the purchase and had no issues with it working. Now I am using the EA Plus+ membership to qualify for the cheaper charging rate. To me, there's no real difference between the 2 other than the rate you pay. Both are equally easy to use.

P&C just required to plug in and make sure everything went fine.
EA takes a swipe fo my phone to initiate charging.
Either way it works for me

That's good to hear. What I had seen was from press testing so it was pretty early on.

 

[TRP]

That's good to hear. What I had seen was from press testing so it was pretty early on.

I'm sure it is a problem with some folks, you hear about it a lot on the Mach E forum. Personally, I've never had to leave a charge station to find another place to charge. I have had to try a different cabinet, but I have always been able to charge

 

[FtS]

I am able to relate to @F-150 Prius experiences, although I never owned an EV before and I am very excited that they are coming. I do want an EV, especially a truck for its utility and overall capability. However, I do have anxiety over charging options and durations. It is not range anxiety, but charge times anxiety.

If I am taking a moderate-length trip with the family (150-200 mi one way), and I have to take one or two charging breaks for 30-60 mins to get back home at places that I do not know and put my family at risk from various elements... That is just not going to work frankly.

I am very hopeful for 2025-2028 time frame for EVs, the charging networks and battery technologies to come of age, so we have to compromise less and be able to jump onto the EV bandwagon.

 

[astricklin]

I am able to relate to @F-150 Prius experiences, although I never owned an EV before and I am very excited that they are coming. I do want an EV, especially a truck for its utility and overall capability. However, I do have anxiety over charging options and durations. It is not range anxiety, but charge times anxiety.

If I am taking a moderate-length trip with the family (150-200 mi one way), and I have to take one or two charging breaks for 30-60 mins to get back home at places that I do not know and put my family at risk from various elements... That is just not going to work frankly.

I am very hopeful for 2025-2028 time frame for EVs, the charging networks and battery technologies to come of age, so we have to compromise less and be able to jump onto the EV bandwagon.

150-200 miles one way and you shouldn't need to stop to charge. If you are travelling with your family, most likely you make at least one pit stop over the ,200 miles. You should be able to get enough range during a short pit stop to get enough buffer to comfortably make it.
Check out the charging stations along the routes you take. From what I have seen a large majority of the EA stations are in Walmart or target parking lots...I usually don't feel like I am putting my family at risk at either of those stores, even visiting one in an unfamiliar location.

 

[Steve Schott]

True. The Apple "it just works" appeal of Tesla (especially if you have the lifetime free option, which I have on my Model X) is a slam dunk compared to futzing around with Chargepoint or the other "networks".
But – big BUT – Ford and other car vendors have solved this by working a deal with the charging vendors. So it really is just plug-in-and-charge. If the vehicle has the latest hardware, it's possible for the charging station to recognize the vehicle and then there's no payment step, making it equal to the Tesla arrangement.
Another "but" is what you mention about operational equipment. It's become common to find some Tesla pedestals don't deliver the full 150 or 250kW and some just don't work or are physically broken (the pins can wear out or be abused.) Of course if there's more than 4 people at an 8 pedestal location, someone has to "share" power between their pedestal and another "paired" pedestat, so while the car might be willing to drink down 100kW+, the system offers up maybe 50 or 70kW.
It's also common to get to an EA station that malfunctions with one car and works with another … obviously frustrating and tedious but also an end of the road for a road trip if you don't have enough range to get to another location.
I've been there in the Tesla … arriving at a location just before a desert crossing (Winnemucca to Elko, Nevada, about 120 miles which, at 80 mph, eats up all of an 80% charge in a Model 3 Performance) only to find three out of four stations occupied, the vacant one was broken and there were two other people waiting. Fortunately the delay was only 30 minutes or so, but in freezing weather, well, it was not a great start to a 1000 mile trip … : )
I think these "early days" problems go away over the next five years, but not as soon as the next two years as the first electric trucks arrive by the tens of thousands … and people with trucks tend to want to load up and go somewhere … it's going to be a shock to the system.

Tesla doesn’t do the lifetime charge thing any more.

As a Bolt owner (wife), there really is no way to do a long trip. The network of DCFC is totally inadequate. Even if you could string together chargers, they are often down or occupied. Nothing like Tesla. And even as they expand and they will, can they outpace demand in the medium term? I doubt it.

For long trips, ICE or better yet hybrid seems the best option for a while. The Bolt is fantastic inside a 2 hour circle though, which is most of our driving. Cheap, understated.

 

[astricklin]

Tesla doesn’t do the lifetime charge thing any more.

As a Bolt owner (wife), there really is no way to do a long trip. The network of DCFC is totally inadequate. Even if you could string together chargers, they are often down or occupied. Nothing like Tesla. And even as they expand and they will, can they outpace demand in the medium term? I doubt it.

For long trips, ICE or better yet hybrid seems inevitable

Check out TFL and also 'out of spec reviews' on YouTube. Both have taken long distance trips in all sorts of EVs. TFL actually bought a mini se with a range of about 125 miles and drove it back to boulder co from new Mexico. Out of spec has driven all over the place in an id.4 which has similar range to a bolt although it will charge faster. So I don't agree with "there's really no way to do a long distance trip".
Now I'm not saying that every route between everywhere will be doable, but I have no doubt that you can make it across the country in a Bolt without getting stranded. It may take a long time, but you can do it.
There's an app called 'a better route planner' that is very helpful for planning a trip and it has information built in for every ev available.

 

[shutterbug]

From what I have seen with the mach-e, plug and charge isn't working very well with the EA network. I'm sure it will get better but at least right now, I don't think I would rely on it and it seems that using the EA app is a much better experience. Also, I know with EA, you can pay a monthly fee to get a lower fee for charging. Currently there is no way to attach your charging network membership to your Ford account so you have to pay full price if using plug and charge.
For a lot of people, the charging network advantages (perceived or real) that Tesla has are a major selling point for the brand.

I think there were a lot of issues with EA and MME early on. At least some of the issues were related to not setting up P&C correctly. Last week, coming back from the Ford event, I had my first opportunity to use EA. I was at 70% so I wasn't going to spend a lot of time there. When I pulled in there were 2 ID4 charging. Shortly after I plugged in, one of the other drivers came over and told me that they both tried using the plug I was at and it didn't work. It worked just fine for me. I was getting 98kW, until I hit 80%. Since I had to spend a penny at Walmart, I actually was there for 12 minutes and left with 82% SOC.

I believe that Ford is planning to make it possible to pay discounted EA rate with P&C. I think they are planning to charge $50/year for that. So it works for people who go on long trips frequently, but not for those going once every few months.

My only problem was reading EA screen with all that afternoon glare.

 

[Steve Schott]

Check out TFL and also 'out of spec reviews' on YouTube. Both have taken long distance trips in all sorts of EVs. TFL actually bought a mini se with a range of about 125 miles and drove it back to boulder co from new Mexico. Out of spec has driven all over the place in an id.4 which has similar range to a bolt although it will charge faster. So I don't agree with "there's really no way to do a long distance trip".
Now I'm not saying that every route between everywhere will be doable, but I have no doubt that you can make it across the country in a Bolt without getting stranded. It may take a long time, but you can do it.
There's an app called 'a better route planner' that is very helpful for planning a trip and it has information built in for every ev available.

To be clearer, you can make it to most places. But you can’t make it conveniently, meaning, without level 2 overnight charging or pulling into a random dcfc and finding it out of service or occupied. I know ABRP but trust me: You give up a lot right now if you don’t get a Tesla. The network is not ready for long trips. I live in Philly and there’s a dearth of dcfc even here.

I drive about 7 hours to a mountain getaway in the Adirondacks each year.Up there there is no charging. If there’s cold weather count on 50-60% max suggested range. So it would take several stops if I was trucking at 75mph (speed and heat decimate range) and even if I got lucky and found a dcfc, it would still be a mess on arrival with limited 220 service.

I am all in on electric but ignore published range completely. That’s a joke. Assume you get 60% of that range if you are driving at 75-80 and will also get terrible range running heat (not as bad running AC).

 

[ShirBlackspots]

https://www.plugshare.com now has the F-150 Lightning as a vehicle you can add. For some odd reason, it has the NEMA 14-50 as an incompatible plug, but that's what most home chargers plug into.

 

[astricklin]

I drive about 7 hours to a mountain getaway in the Adirondacks each year.Up there there is no charging. If there’s cold weather count on 50-60% max suggested range. So it would take several stops if I was trucking at 75mph (speed and heat decimate range) and even if I got lucky and found a dcfc, it would still be a mess on arrival with limited 220 service.

The amount of money you save in gas a year over a regular f150 should cover that once a year rental.

It sucks that the route you like to drive isn't covered by the charging network today. It's very possible that it will be in 6 months to a year or hopefully not too far in the future. But just because it doesn't work for the one route you take doesn't make EVs inconvenient and not good for longer trips. It just means that it's not optimal for your uses. I can easily make it from Dallas to Lubbock Texas stopping twice to charge and I stop at least twice on this journey anyway. It would add maybe 30 minutes to the trip.

I'm ready, and a I think a huge number of other truck owners are ready. It will cover my use cases with even the standard range and it will allow me to drive the vehicle regularly without spending a fortune on gas. I hate owning a vehicle that sits 90% of the time. I'm ready to be done with gasoline power and changing oil.
I'm ready to show other people that it isn't going to take a lot of effort to make an electric truck work for most people.

 

[Steve Schott]

The amount of money you save in gas a year over a regular f150 should cover that once a year rental.

It sucks that the route you like to drive isn't covered by the charging network today. It's very possible that it will be in 6 months to a year or hopefully not too far in the future. But just because it doesn't work for the one route you take doesn't make EVs inconvenient and not good for longer trips. It just means that it's not optimal for your uses. I can easily make it from Dallas to Lubbock Texas stopping twice to charge and I stop at least twice on this journey anyway. It would add maybe 30 minutes to the trip.

I'm ready, and a I think a huge number of other truck owners are ready. It will cover my use cases with even the standard range and it will allow me to drive the vehicle regularly without spending a fortune on gas. I hate owning a vehicle that sits 90% of the time. I'm ready to be done with gasoline power and changing oil.
I'm ready to show other people that it isn't going to take a lot of effort to make an electric truck work for most people.

I own an EV vehicle that’s not a Tesla and love it but I think you’ll see that your long drives will not be as trouble free as you think. Lots of level 2 chargers are broken or occupied and the very few dcfc chargers are even more so.

If you have a 300 mile range car, assume it’s closer to 200-230 on highway and then drawa circle at 180. Your life is amazing inside that circle if you end up at home most nights. That’s us with the Bolt. Simply amazing.

As you venture out and hope to find dcfc charging stations, good luck. Maybe Texas is filled with them in a way that the northeast is not. But I can tell you that in Philly, there are a handful. Most are at dealerships so often blocked or in use. The others in my experience are often out of service or being used.

 

[Dadofjax]

Thanks, yes, I didn't intend my post to be argumentative or critical of the Lightning or opine on who should or should not buy the Lightning.

Unfortunately if you make a post or comment that may appear slightly negative to some of those on here regarding the Lightning or any EV they get all worked up.

They just need to settle down a bit in my opinion we are all Ford owners here there is nothing wrong with having a different opinions or thoughts on the Lightning or other EVs.

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