F-150 Lightning EV Tax Credits & Rebates - Discussions & Predictions

[astricklin]

it isn't an excuse. It is a reason. A valid one at that.

Agreed, it kinda stinks but currently the majority of funds for roads comes from gas taxes. As fewer vehicles are using gas/diesel the revenue will decrease and if governments cannot replace the funds in some way then roads are going to suffer. The one key will be that the solution needs to be seen as fair and equitable and not just punishing EVs.

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[vandy1981]

Agreed, it kinda stinks but currently the majority of funds for roads comes from gas taxes. As fewer vehicles are using gas/diesel the revenue will decrease and if governments cannot replace the funds in some way then roads are going to suffer. The one key will be that the solution needs to be seen as fair and equitable and not just punishing EVs.

Agreed. The most talked about option (mileage-based) would be hard to implement because it would require networked vehicles and/or someone to look at the odometer in person (would function like emissions testing). It would be weird to have the government download data from my vehicle remotely and going to a mileage center would be about as popular as going to an emisions testing center.

I think the most equitable way to tax EVs is by curb weight, since it's the thing that most correlates with highway wear other than mileage. I think Oklahoma does this already. A 9000 pound Hummer is going to cause a lot more roadway wear and tear than a 3900 pound Bolt EV. It would encourage manufactures to reduce weight thus improving efficiency and pedestrian/crash safety. It would also probably be the least regressive option since *generally* less expensive EVs also weigh less (see Leaf, Bolt, Kona EV, etc.).

 

[TF1000]

In Wisconsin we have a registration surcharge on EV's and Hybrids. It would make more sense if it was just based on mpg or mpge (and weight) instead of what the vehicle is called. There are some hybrids that get lousy mpg and some regular ICE vehicles that get quite good mpg.

 

[astricklin]

Agreed. The most talked about option (mileage-based) would be hard to implement because it would require networked vehicles and/or someone to look at the odometer in person (would function like emissions testing).

In Texas (and I am guessing a lot of other states) vehicles are required to have safety/emissions testing yearly and the odometer reading is recorded during this. However, if I drive a significant amount of miles outside of the state where my vehicle is registered this complicates things.

 

[vandy1981]

However, if I drive a significant amount of miles outside of the state where my vehicle is registered this complicates things.

That's something I hadn't thought about. Maybe a surcharge on fast charger fill-ups would also be warranted?

 

[Nick Gerteis]

In Texas (and I am guessing a lot of other states) vehicles are required to have safety/emissions testing yearly and the odometer reading is recorded during this. However, if I drive a significant amount of miles outside of the state where my vehicle is registered this complicates things.

Yes, but someone else will drive a lot in your state but their vehicle is registered elsewhere. More or less it’s a wash.

 

[TXLightning]

In the bill text just released-

$12,500 credit
74k limit for pickups

income limits pretty high, 800k married filing joint

https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-117HR5376RH-RCP117-17.pdf

 

[bboy_72]

All green tax credits are immoral and an ineffective SOP to the green lobby. They achieve none of their intended effects, while subsidizing the wealthy. But as long as you want to pay me to do a thing, I'll do that thing. Just don't then b*tch about not paying my fair share when my taxes are lower than whatever benchmarch you chose because you've used tax incentives to help fund a luxury lifestyle with solar panels, luxury vehicles, and a green homes. Hundreds of thousands of dollars and counting... all borrowed on the backs of future generations. Have at it.

Cry me a river.

 

[JTmass]

In the bill text just released-

$12,500 credit
74k limit for pickups

If that limit stays I really hope Ford can get a Lariat with ER battery under 74k. Otherwise it's XLT+ with ER for me. I'm not giving up 12.5k for leather and a few other luxuries.

 

[mmcguirk]

In the bill text just released-

$12,500 credit
74k limit for pickups

income limits pretty high, 800k married filing joint

https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-117HR5376RH-RCP117-17.pdf

The good stuff starts on page 1868. (Edit: oops, sorry . That's pg 1868 of the full, 2468 page version.)

There's also lots of verbiage about incentives for public charging equipment.

 

[astricklin]

$27,500 for the base pro is a freaking steal. You can't even get an F150 in any configuration for that msrp today.

 

[greenne]

Supposed text of HR5376- Build back America plan

Speaker Pelosi announced that the text of the "Build back America plan for published for review by the House rules Committee. Supposedly this is the most up to date version after all the "cuts" and compromise and was published today (October 28.2021)

Its been slimmed down to 1600 pages(ha!)..but the good stuff regarding EV tax credits begins on pg 1240 if you care to read it.

https://rules.house.gov/bill/117/hr-5376 (click on version with modification 117-17)
---> https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-117HR5376RH-RCP117-17.pdf
( Showing the text of H.R. 5376, as reported by the Committee on the Budget, with modifications. )

Here is what I surmised by reading it(no big surprises)--

Up to a 12,500 total credit for EVs broken down like this--

$4000 base amount
$3500 for batteries over 40kW(that rises to 50kw at future date)
$4500 if EV built in USA --->in this section it just says "built in USA", however in the definitions section it defines "build in USA" as being manufactured at a factory with collective bargaining. It APPEARS like it needs to be a union factory
$500 if over 50% domestic parts content

Looks like it runs for 10yrs to 2031, although there are some additional restrictions after 2026?

It appears like Lightning would be at full $12500 amount

MSRP cap of $74k for pickups(lower for vans, Suvs, cars)

Income cap of $400k single, $800k married Joint

--------------

I could not find ANYTHING confirming it was a refundable credit, however it appears like it is transferable to the dealer(on sales date)...point of sale.. so I think it is probably refundable..I don't see how it could be done as a rebate if not? (Also, EVERY previous version was reported to be refundable...can't imagine they would change that)

If anyone has different read on it let me know. As with any legislation..it very difficult to read.

Comments/thoughts?


Summary:
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/ev-tax-credit-increase-12500-biden-build-back-better/

 

[greenne]

The good stuff starts on page 1868.

There's also lots of verbiage about incentives for public charging equipment.

You mean pg1240...it was 1868 in the previous version before mods. I didn't see anything that changed wrt EVs....they just got rid of the Paid Leave and Climate stuff Sen Manchun didn't like

 

[greenne]

If that limit stays I really hope Ford can get a Lariat with ER battery under 74k. Otherwise it's XLT+ with ER for me. I'm not giving up 12.5k for leather and a few other luxuries.

^^this...

I am thinking this is the reason prices have not been announced yet. Based on some of the preliminary stuff we saw a Lariat with ER battery was ~$76-79k. Wondering if they will try to knock a few thousand off to squeeze it under $74k. If not there will be a significant amount of people opting for the XLT instead.

 

[FordLightning]

In the bill text just released-

$12,500 credit
74k limit for pickups

income limits pretty high, 800k married filing joint

https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-117HR5376RH-RCP117-17.pdf

Thanks, 1,684 pages of fun. What page is this on?

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