Uh, Oh... looks like the EV tax credits are hitting an obstacle

[Whiskey]

Winning an economic war against China is not our greatest risk. It is climate change which is already present for many people in the US and the world. However, not addressing climate change as the #1 issue is the American way, just push it down to the next generation when it becomes even more of a money sink and health issue than it is now.



Fires / Air Quality:

“The fires we’ve seen this summer are not wind-driven events that we typically see in the fall; they are primarily dry fuel-driven events,” Scott Strenfel, director of PG&E meteorology, said in a statement. “Climate change impacts have led to more frequent heat waves, extreme drought, and millions of dead and dying trees, which have created elevated wildfire risk.”

“The fact is that forest management is not stopping weather- and climate-driven fires,” said Chad Hanson, a forest and fire ecologist and the president of the John Muir Project.

https://climate.nasa.gov/ask-nasa-c...ections-of-a-record-fire-year-in-the-us-west/

https://www.latimes.com/california/...change-is-now-main-driver-of-wildfire-weather

https://www.latimes.com/projects/wildfire-california-fuel-breaks-newsom-paradise/

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/21/western-wildfire-smoke-reaches-east-coast-hurts-air-quality.html


Heat Waves:

https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/10/05/canada-disastrous-impact-extreme-heat
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...west-heat-dome-already-has-clear-climate-link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Western_North_America_heat_wave

"An international team of climate scientists said in July that the magnitude of the BC heat dome was made 150 times more likely as a result of climate change. Two other heatwaves followed in July and August. With Canada warming at twice the global rate, or even three times in northern parts of the country, heatwaves are expected to become more frequent and more intense."


Power failures:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/16/climate/texas-power-grid-failures.html
https://time.com/5940491/texas-power-outage-climate/
https://www.tpr.org/environment/202...ng-a-toll-on-texas-will-the-energy-grid-adapt

"The Texas electricity grid failed because it wasn’t ready for climate change. With more extreme weather on the horizon, experts say the grid needs to adapt.
"

"The cascade of failures in Texas signals what is perhaps the greatest challenge ahead in this climate-changed world: accepting that business as usual isn’t working. Across the planet, humans have built civilization to withstand the vagaries of a 20th century climate. The extreme weather events of the 21st century will look nothing like those that came before—and hundreds of years of past preparation will not suffice. “The future is not going to be like the past,” says Melissa Finucane, a co-director of the Rand Climate Resilience Center. “If we could just plan a little better, we could anticipate some of these problems.”"

https://www.latimes.com/environment...res-burn-pge-ceo-promises-fixes-boiling-point

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/climate/heat-climate-health-risks.html


Flooding:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/21/florida-climate-crisis-sea-level-habitat-loss

"By any estimation, Florida is drowning. In some scenarios, sea levels will rise up to 31in by 2060, a devastating prediction for a region that already deals regularly with tidal flooding and where an estimated 120,000 properties on or near the water are at risk. The pace of the rise is also hastening, scientists say – it took 31 years for the waters around Miami to rise by six inches, while the next six inches will take only 15 more."

http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/202...taking-bold-action-to-increase-its-resilience

https://19january2017snapshot.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-09/documents/climate-change-la.pdf

Changing climate is also likely to increase the risk of inland
flooding. Since 1958, the amount of precipitation falling during
heavy rainstorms has increased by 27 percent in the Southeast,
and the trend toward increasingly heavy rainstorms is likely to
continue. Moreover, the amount of rainfall in the Midwest is also
likely to increase, which could worsen flooding in Louisiana,
because most of the Midwest drains into the Mississippi River.


You could go on forever at this time, given how severe the impact has been because of climate change.





Per the obvious issue of climate change above -- we need every incentive to move from burning fuels for energy. That includes tax credits for EVs. But, Manchin, who is the biggest road block, would likely prefer it if we ran cars on Coal (which is the single biggest factor in emissions).

However, I do believe as written, they should have stricter income/price limits so the rich aren't receiving benefits they do not need. E.g..

$150K/$300K Income limit for receiving it.

Anything smaller than a Truck should cap at $50K. Truck ~$70K. Both of which should decrease overtime as EVs become more affordable.

WOW… a new expert including links to all the Kool-aid and everything.

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[TF1000]

Science is not just “facts”, it also includes theories and hypothesis. Scientists believed the earth was flat and electricity was juice; they guessed wrong on the direction of electricity, etc.

Science is not even capable of creation of a simple life form such as a worm, or guessing my weather perfectly a week in advance. Science is much more limited than your perception of it.

No. Scientists never thought the world was flat. That was religions. They were in control of everything. Please read up on it.

 

[TF1000]

I see we have went from > climate change is a hoax > climate change is real but caused by sunspots > climate change is real and might be caused by humans but too expensive to fix > climate change is real and might be caused by humans but China blah, blah, blah > back to climate change is a hoax. Full circle. I know exactly who caused this.

 

[Administrator]

All - if we can't stay on topic and keep politics out of the thread, it will be locked.

 

[JTmass]

All - if we can't stay on topic and keep politics out of the thread, it will be locked.

Please just do it already. This has been a complete garbage thread and the forum quality has gone down significantly because of it.

 

[shutterbug]

OMG….EaglesPdX, please tell us all when that may occur. I’m waiting anxiously to here from you, the expert among us all, on greenhouse gases. How much of our tax dollars must we spend, to make the changes you are suggesting? What kind of lifestyle will our Grandkids live, when more than half they earn go directly to the Government in taxes, to repay for these subsidies? And, don’t feed me the Kool-aid your drinking that might suggest; “There will be no world for them to live in”. I’m not drinking it!

Well, it's been nearly 50 years so far

So figure another 200-300 years more.

 

[HtownHog]

All - if we can't stay on topic and keep politics out of the thread, it will be locked.

wonder if you can time out the offending posters instead. Put them on a 7 day or 14 day post restriction, leave the civilized discussions to the rest of us.

 

[EaglesPDX]

OMG….EaglesPdX, please tell us all when that may occur.

Www.IPcc.org

 

[Brian Head Yankee]

My observation is that 81 million Americans who seem to be in step about the impending doom of of climate change can cut our car emissions in half by simply taking the lead and stop driving. An EV only cuts ICE emissions by a percentage. The fastest way to turn climate change around is to stop using cars at all. I am simply saying that I am looking for leadership by example. If you truly believe, car usage should be very low, right? I find it funny that fanatics are on a car site pounding the drum for caring for the climate. An EV creates more CO2 at the beginning and only becomes cleaned than an ICE after 3 to 4 year depending on the miles driven.

In the Las Vegas area, we are bombarded by commercials telling to save water. I shrug my shoulders given that we still have hundreds and hundreds of golf courses.

The optics are not good for the climate change advocates.

 

[Sgt Beavis]

All - if we can't stay on topic and keep politics out of the thread, it will be locked.

*golf clap*

Please just do it already. This has been a complete garbage thread and the forum quality has gone down significantly because of it.

This isn't a bad idea.

wonder if you can time out the offending posters instead. Put them on a 7 day or 14 day post restriction, leave the civilized discussions to the rest of us.

This is an even better idea.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Keep politics out of a thread on "ev tax credits are hitting an obstacle"? the thread is ABOUT politics. I don't like the silliness of many of the simultaneously clueless, utopian, and apocalyptic lefties on many EV-oriented forums, but c'mon - this thread invites that kinda politics.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

Keep politics out of a thread on "ev tax credits are hitting an obstacle"? the thread is ABOUT politics. I don't like the silliness of many of the simultaneously clueless, utopian, and apocalyptic lefties on many EV-oriented forums, but c'mon - this thread invites that kinda politics.

Exactly. Just my 2 pennies, but so far this has been a fairly rational and polite debate here. Ok to have widely different points of view and present them without threats or name calling.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

My observation is that 81 million Americans who seem to be in step about the impending doom of of climate change can cut our car emissions in half by simply taking the lead and stop driving. An EV only cuts ICE emissions by a percentage. The fastest way to turn climate change around is to stop using cars at all. I am simply saying that I am looking for leadership by example. If you truly believe, car usage should be very low, right? I find it funny that fanatics are on a car site pounding the drum for caring for the climate. An EV creates more CO2 at the beginning and only becomes cleaned than an ICE after 3 to 4 year depending on the miles driven.

In the Las Vegas area, we are bombarded by commercials telling to save water. I shrug my shoulders given that we still have hundreds and hundreds of golf courses.

The optics are not good for the climate change advocates.

Cool! Everything is always somebody else’s problem—that makes it so easy. As you state yourself, EVs typically save vast amounts of carbon over their lifecycle, and that’s a good enough start for me.

 

[EaglesPDX]

OMG….EaglesPdX, please tell us all when that may occur.

https://www.ipcc.ch/

 

[techguydave]

An EV creates more CO2 at the beginning and only becomes cleaned than an ICE after 3 to 4 year depending on the miles driven.

The average age of vehicles in America is 12 years. So yes, it is worse at the start but barring a total collision in the first 4 years that vehicle will still be cleaner in the long-run. It's a start.

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