Uh, Oh... looks like the EV tax credits are hitting an obstacle

[Blainestang]

Get people interested with a $35,000 version of the Model 3, only to make it hard to get for consumers and strip it to the bones so no one wants it.

Incorrect.

The ~$35,000 version that was available for ~20 months (April 2019 to November 2020) was actually way BETTER than it was supposed to be. It was supposed to get a plain metal roof (no all-glass roof) and an even cheaper interior, but Tesla ended up giving it the same interior and the all-glass roof anyway.

So, there are certainly things to complain about with Tesla, but they didn't "strip the $35000 version to the bone". The exact opposite, in fact.

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[F150ROD]

Incorrect.

The ~$35,000 version that was available for ~20 months (April 2019 to November 2020) was actually way BETTER than it was supposed to be. It was supposed to get a plain metal roof (no all-glass roof) and an even cheaper interior, but Tesla ended up giving it the same interior and the all-glass roof anyway.

So, there are certainly things to complain about with Tesla, but they didn't "strip the $35000 version to the bone". The exact opposite, in fact.

Agreed. People who actually bought this version have probably had their car appreciate in value.

 

[Losi]

All this climate change talk is making laugh because I’m almost positive it’s the last thing most EV buyers think about but then want to act like they are doing for the best interest of others…lmao

It’s actually the main reason I want to get one. I could get a Kia Carnival today that would suit my needs perfectly, but I’m holding out for an EV that can accommodate my family. I think it’s important, others will disagree.

 

[F150ROD]

It’s actually the main reason I want to get one. I could get a Kia Carnival today that would suit my needs perfectly, but I’m holding out for an EV that can accommodate my family. I think it’s important, others will disagree.

I'm not saying there aren't people who do it for that reason but let's be honest it's a small percentage. Ill give you an example, Mazda has made an EV with a small battery and about 100 miles of range. Mazda says it went that route because it's best for the environment. It's perfect for city dwellers, but slow as a slug. Guess how many people have shown enthusiasm for that EV?

 

[Ruination]

This is nothing but a political debate, but it is inarguable that even the current tax credit opens up the ability for more people to adopt EV. The one proposed in BBB would make it even more widely available.

Yes, they will sell every truck they produce, that is a given. What the credit or rebate determines is how many are produced. Can 100,000 people afford and want the truck or 500,000? There absolutely should be an income cap on it though, no need for the 100k who will buy the truck anyways to receive a rebate.

If you don't believe in Climate change you are oblivious...If you haven't noticed sea level rise you probably live 10 miles from the water.

 

[Pioneer74]

If you don't believe in Climate change you are oblivious...If you haven't noticed sea level rise you probably live 10 miles from the water.

I believe in climate change. Otherwise, living in Michigan, I'd be underneath a glacier right now.

 

[Snakebitten]

I'm pretty sure EVERYONE believes in Climate Change.
Actually, everybody believes in Change period.
Everything is perpetually changing.

I'm sure you know what it is that not everyone actually believes. Some DO. Some Don't. But they all believe in change. Things are either cooling or warming. Always have. Always will.

But I know what you meant. It's just the accusation, in either direction, that folks react to.

 

[greenne]

I'm not saying there aren't people who do it for that reason but let's be honest it's a small percentage. Ill give you an example, Mazda has made an EV with a small battery and about 100 miles of range. Mazda says it went that route because it's best for the environment. It's perfect for city dwellers, but slow as a slug. Guess how many people have shown enthusiasm for that EV?

Its always a give and take... a tradeoff of some sort. If we did what was the very BEST for the environment we'd live in cities and use public transport, walk, or bike. We'd design and build walkable communities. We'd invest in clean energy in earnest--not because its cheaper, but because its cleaner. But that's not real world. In a world where we have to drive(due to living situation) or choose to drive it about dong the best we can with compromise. There still isn't a NO compromise(compared to ICE) EV out there. Some compromise with space, some with limited range, some with a high price(cost), some with extended charge times, some with lack of performance or utility. A lot of EVs have a combination of tradeoffs, a lot have some advantages--greater power, instantaneous torque, lower service costs, etc.

The Mazda EV (in my opinion) make too many tradeoffs in the wrong areas..areas which are hard for the US consumer to overlook. Price is one that sticks out as what you get for what you spend is less than the competition. 100mi of range is great for city dwellers.. but people who only are city dwellers are more apt to take public transit. 100mi of range means you would need a whole lot of patience(multiple charging stops) or another vehicle for road trips. Cold weather would snap that range to a ridiculous low.

I think if given the choice and reasonable tradeoffs people would choose the clean machine. The problem is too often the tradeoffs are great. If the EV credit get rid of the financial tradeoff, I do think it would push more people to the clean alternative and "live" with the other EV disadvantages.

 

[Snakebitten]

So I didn't know what an MX30 even is. Which is a little weird since I daily a Miata and a Porsche Boxster. I should know these things.
I launch CarGurus app and do a quick search to see if any are near me. (I don't live in an EV rich part of the world like say.... California.

Whattayaknow! They are REAL and they are available. But WAIT!

$35-40K?????

See, that's the problem that the Lightning presents to those of us who have only recently discovered that we ARE potentially green afterall. Us newcomers have only the current benchmark for our EV value-quation.

Park a $40K most basic you can get Lightning next to the equivalent priced competitor and it's likely why we didn't ever get lured to being green earlier.

For me, when I thought EV, I thought Tesla or Volt or Bolt....
Sorry, but I have to have more versatility in a family vehicle than that. Sure, I could buy one and add it to the "toy" fleet. But my toys are for grins and until the Lightning I hadn't considered a green grin possible.

 

[Ruination]

I believe in climate change. Otherwise, living in Michigan, I'd be underneath a glacier right now.

Actually you would probably be thinking about Ice fishing right now.

GHG multipliers are QUANTIFIABLE, our emissions are QUANTIFIABLE, and the current levels are QUANTIFIABLE.

 

[Snakebitten]

Actually you would probably be Ice fishing right now.

GHG multipliers are QUANTIFIABLE, our emissions are QUANTIFIABLE, and the current levels are QUANTIFIABLE.

Quantifiable is absolutely believable.
But gaining consensus on what the actual desired quantity is? Probably is all over the place.

 

[Ruination]

Quantifiable is absolutely believable.
But gaining consensus on what the actual desired quantity is? Probably is all over the place.

Hardly. A net of zero is the actual desired quantity. Actually, we should be negative.

We are so far away from too much carbon being removed from the atmosphere it's not even a thought.

 

[F150ROD]

Well looks like we can forget about anything getting done this month IMO, who knows they might surprise me. Maybe the first week of December? Either way, 5 weeks left until fall is over and the Ford configurator or Order date is nowhere to be found.

CBO to release full cost estimate for 'Build Back Better' plan by Nov. 19

Nov 15 (Reuters) - The Congressional Budget Office said it anticipates publishing a complete cost estimate for U.S. President Joe Biden's "Build Back Better" plan by Friday, Nov. 19.

The $1.75 trillion proposal aims to expand the social safety net in the United States and boost climate change policy. The estimate will be published on the CBO's website.

The CBO, a nonpartisan arm of Congress, is expected to provide revenue scores for the IRS and drug-pricing provisions, Democratic lawmakers have said.

Ito began publishing estimates for individual elements of the bill on Nov. 10, and has published six so far.

If passed by the House of Representatives, the social policy legislation would move to the Senate, also narrowly controlled by Democrats, where Majority Leader Chuck Schumer wants to enact it before the Nov. 25 Thanksgiving holiday.

https://www.reuters.com/business/cb...-build-back-better-plan-by-friday-2021-11-15/

 

[Nick Gerteis]

Well looks like we can forget about anything getting done this month IMO, who knows they might surprise me. Maybe the first week of December? Either way, 5 weeks left until fall is over and the Ford configurator or Order date is nowhere to be found.

CBO to release full cost estimate for 'Build Back Better' plan by Nov. 19

Nov 15 (Reuters) - The Congressional Budget Office said it anticipates publishing a complete cost estimate for U.S. President Joe Biden's "Build Back Better" plan by Friday, Nov. 19.

The $1.75 trillion proposal aims to expand the social safety net in the United States and boost climate change policy. The estimate will be published on the CBO's website.

The CBO, a nonpartisan arm of Congress, is expected to provide revenue scores for the IRS and drug-pricing provisions, Democratic lawmakers have said.

Ito began publishing estimates for individual elements of the bill on Nov. 10, and has published six so far.

If passed by the House of Representatives, the social policy legislation would move to the Senate, also narrowly controlled by Democrats, where Majority Leader Chuck Schumer wants to enact it before the Nov. 25 Thanksgiving holiday.

https://www.reuters.com/business/cb...-build-back-better-plan-by-friday-2021-11-15/

Yeah, I saw that too. I’d rather they wait a few extra days though and fully digest the CBO report before voting on BBB. Worst case our order date is delayed by a few weeks. This gives us more time to call Manchin and try to talk some sense into that fella.

 

[greenne]

Yeah, I saw that too. I’d rather they wait a few extra days though and fully digest the CBO report before voting on BBB. Worst case our order date is delayed by a few weeks. This gives us more time to call Manchin and try to talk some sense into that fella.

If it helps....with respect to EVs..Dems should just tell Manchin more EVs will create more need for power. (In WV that means coal). If there's anything Manchin likes more than Big Oil it is Big Coal.

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