Use Lightning like a Power Wall? Peak load shaving, not backup?

[DadBald]

I'm curious, and we may not know yet, but is it possible to use the Lightning like a battery bank in conjunction with solar? I would like to have the Lightning power our house every evening to avoid high electric prices, then charge back up from the grid at night. I know the charging part of that is regular functionality, but what about powering the home when the grid is still active? Not talking about power-out backup here, but more peak-load shaving.

I was looking into a Tesla Powerwall, but the cost is too high. And if I recall it was something like 15kWh storage. I have concerns about extra wear on the Lightnings battery, but really it's only 10-15% discharge in comparison, and I likely wouldn't need the whole 15kWh every day either, maybe a 1/3 of that, so really not talking about much load on the truck. Might be a nice way to make a few bucks back every year.

How would the wiring have to look in conjunction with solar for this? How would the truck know how much to discharge in conjunction with solar? How does it know the difference between powering the home and discharging to the grid? Just daydreaming here. Thanks for any thoughts.

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[sotek2345]

To the best of my knowledge, Ford has advertised this as a future feature, not available at launch.

 

[GarageMahal]

There is very little information released about the home battery capabilities. I too have solar and want to know more about charging when the grid is down but have found nearly nothing about it yet.

I am prepared to take an early adopter risk at this point and hope it all get figured out once the vehicles are delivered. No worries if it doesn't as the lightning still makes sense for my lifestyle.

 

[jeffcrum]

Even if not designed to be used this way, you could certainly wire it in a way that you could flip switches to your heart's desire.

But, if they don't program it that way, there is nothing automated about it.

ETA: Your last paragraph is the real part. If Ford doesn't program it for this, your other hardware would need to understand and probably currently does not.

 

[EaglesPDX]

It will impact the lifespan of the truck battery. There are finite full charge cycles in a Li-ion battery (500?). You'll be adding 365 discharge/charges a year if you are powering the house at night with the truck.

Probably cheaper and more cost effective to buy some old cheap batteries for house backup.

 

[Oneand0]

I’m sure once

It will impact the lifespan of the truck battery. There are finite full charge cycles in a Li-ion battery (500?). You'll be adding 365 discharge/charges a year if you are powering the house at night with the truck.

Probably cheaper and more cost effective to buy some old cheap batteries for house backup.

If he keeps his battery between 20 and 80% while doing this and will only probably need about 10 or so Kilowatts during peak it should not degrade it. Not substantially. I plan on using it this way as well, as soon as the tech is revealed how it will work with charging the house.

 

[DadBald]

I’m sure once


If he keeps his battery between 20 and 80% while doing this and will only probably need about 10 or so Kilowatts during peak it should not degrade it. Not substantially. I plan on using it this way as well, as soon as the tech is revealed how it will work with charging the house.

It's the same as or better than driving it in my mind.

 

[Snakebitten]

As a full time RV'r, I give my Powerboost quite the workout for those times I don't have shore power. Not everyday, of course, but I'm someone that the Powerboost is like a dream come true.
Use it for all kinds of things.

That's a small battery that gets multiple charge cycles every time the truck is in use. I don't know much about battery technology, but I wonder what design parameters there are that would allow that battery to last the length of the warranty? ??

 

[EaglesPDX]

If he keeps his battery between 20 and 80% while doing this and will only probably need about 10 or so Kilowatts during peak it should not degrade it.

All charges and discharges degrade it. In 10 days of 10% usage you've done 1 x 100% cycle out of your 500(?) life time, so it is definitely going to impact the battery degradation.

Not sure the car companies have thought this through in regard to their battery warranty which is based on use as an auto, not an auto and a battery backup used daily.

Could see software being re-written to measure the discharge and record it and have it deducted from the warranty time/miles.

 

[Snakebitten]

Are you sure manufacturers have the authority to reduce warranty on the Hybrid or electric portion of a vehicle?
Why do I think the 8 year 100,000 mile common warranty amongst multiple manufacturers is because it is mandated?

 

[Oneand0]

All charges and discharges degrade it. In 10 days of 10% usage you've done 1 x 100% cycle out of your 500(?) life time, so it is definitely going to impact the battery degradation.

Not sure the car companies have thought this through in regard to their battery warranty which is based on use as an auto, not an auto and a battery backup used daily.

Could see software being re-written to measure the discharge and record it and have it deducted from the warranty time/miles.

All charges, like using it for commuting Monday through Friday? Then not commuting on the weekends, except for errands. That’s normal use of a car and I’m sure tapping in a few extra kilowatts is not going to be a big deal. These things were made to be used everyday and charge up when needed.

 

[jefro]

Most of this stuff has a warranty of 8 to 10 years currently.
A battery degrades for all sorts of reasons. It never gets better for any reason.
Since the Powerwalls seem to do so well then one might hope the Ford will. I'd think that one would be much better off buying a dedicated home battery and only consider the Ford for emergency use or some limited daytime power.
You can be sure someone on the tube will tell either how much they saved or how the planet burned down.

 

[DadBald]

Also, 10x 10% charges are not seen the same as a 1x 100% charge on these batteries.

 

[EaglesPDX]

But yes, all charge/discharge cycles will degrade the battery to some degree.

Wonder if anyone has actually run the tests to failure to see how many 10% discharges vs. 50% vs. 75% to see which degrades the battery faster in terms of kWh. Would one get more kWh out of the battery's lifecycle? The test lit to date suggests while it extends the time it doesn't get more kWh.

"The typical estimated life of a Lithium-Ion battery is about two to three years or 300 to 500 charge cycles, whichever occurs first. One charge cycle is a period of use from fully charged, to fully discharged, and fully recharged again."

And using the car every night to run the home would reduce the battery life which the car mfg is warranting based on usage only as a car.

If you are halving the life of a $50k piece of equipment to save $5k in electricity costs, the numbers might not pencil out.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Most of this stuff has a warranty of 8 to 10 years currently.

Electric Vehicle Component Coverage: 8 years or 100,00 miles (whichever occurs first), with retention of 70% or more of the original High Voltage Battery capacity over that period.

I'll hit 100,000 in 4 years.

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