Transition to EV, why Ford/GM still need dealers to sell the trucks?

[Bryan Simon]

I'm a Texan. So I'm a hillbilly regardless of.... Well, whatever.
Forums truly can be hilarious.

28 million people and we are all the same because of our address.

Yep, me too, and rural on top of that.
But, I am a transplant, but have been here over 20 yr, so I guess naturalized.
works well for me as I am also not a social individual either

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[jazzmanmonty]

Problem with all this is that its good to have a dealer because you can score good deals sometimes on unwanted inventory. You can also (used to be able to lol) haggle a bit. Also, its good to have brand-specific mechanics working on your warranty repairs.

With a hybrid model of dealers selling and manufacturer selling online is that the manufacturer would sell at same m.s.r.p. as dealer. The manufacturer won't lower the prices based off subtracting what a dealer makes (which would be great). You see this all the time. Say you want an iphone and go to the apple website. It'll be normal price. But you go to target and they might have it on sale for $50 less. So In a hybrid model, dealer deals would win over manufacturer direct.

If there was no dealership, then you'd be locked in to whatever the manufacturer sells at. There is no wiggle room aside from any promotions they may have, and there won't be deals on cars that sat on the lot too long because manufacturing would me more on-demand (thank you technology..its all your fault)

So a world with no dealerships has many more pros than cons.

The only fix we all really want is more honest and informed dealerships. So to solve this, all manufacturers need to do is enforce more strict policies and harsh penalties on their franchises.

 

[EaglesPDX]

The Tesla direct model is pretty much a failure of long waits for service and then parts if you need them and poor communications. Don't think you'll see anyone wanting to imitate the Tesla direct model

After dealing with Tesla, the dealer system looks great.

 

[jefro]

My main complaint on the Tesla is that you can't use your states laws to protect yourself. Tesla may be a great company. The next EV or ICE builder might be a bunch of crooks and you'd have to find a lawyer in that state to try an sue. I guess now that Tesla has moved to Texas I can sue here at least.

I do remember the Armadillo World Headquarters.

 

[Marshall]

The Tesla direct model is pretty much a failure of long waits for service and then parts if you them and poor commuications. Don't think you'll see anyone wanting to imitate the Tesla direct model

After dealing with Tesla, the dealer system looks great.

Clearly we have had a very different experience with Tesla and with the dealerships, which is inevitable, but for me, before we had a local service center, the two times that I actually had to have my Tesla serviced, I scheduled Tesla mobile service come to my house and the problem was resolved. One required ordering a part which took a week to come in, but once it did, they made a second appointment to come out an installed it. I had equally good experiences with my previous Honda, when getting service done through the local dealership.

The buying experience on the other hand has been much different. When I ordered my Tesla, I entered the options and paid my deposit online, they called to verify and I had to deal with financing and such, but I paid the listed price and about 45 days later, my car was available to pick up. No ADM, no dealer addons, no nonsense.

With the Lightning, the process has been the worst car buying experience of my life. I ordered online, was forced to immediately choose between dealers that I had never dealt with before, and then put down my $100 placeholder. I spoke to the dealer after the order and they say that they don't add ADM, but they would likely have 3k worth of dealer add-ons, which was annoying, but since pricing had not yet been announced and I knew that the $7500 tax credit would likely still be on the table, I figured that it was still worth it.

In December pricing was announced, and like many, I was dismayed that the ER versions were beyond my reach, but the Pro seemed like a bargain. Then Jan 6 comes and I had one of the Wave 1 golden tickets! I got my F150 Lightning Pro spec'd, ordered, paid my $1000 deposit and the dealer accepted the order. I was excited.

That excitement turned to profound anger last Friday when the dealer called and said that they would be only getting one F150 Lightning in 2022, and as a result they would be marking my truck up $20k over MSRP because "that's what they are going for" and if I wasn't willing to pay, they would refund my deposit, cancel my order, and configure the truck for somebody else. I did not agree to any additional markup, and have not cancelled my order. This is currently being escalated through the Lightning Team at Ford customer support.

Again, this has turned out to be the worst car buying experience of my life (assuming I even get to purchase a truck at this point) and never would have happened under a direct sales model.

 

[techguydave]

The next EV or ICE builder might be a bunch of crooks

Why wait? ICE dealerships already exist.

 

[EaglesPDX]

I ordered online, was forced to immediately choose between dealers that I had never dealt with before, and then put down my $100 placeholder.

You can pick any dealer you want. If you didn't like the dealer you picked it is clearly noted how to change dealers.

I was dismayed that the ER versions were beyond my reach, but the Pro seemed like a bargain.

Lighting is priced very similar to ICE versions so no one should have been surprised. As for the "Pro" that was always noted as for commercial fleets.

As for the dealer markup, Ford has been very aggressive in fighting it and so far, not one instance of an F150EV selling above MSRP.

Again, this has turned out to be the worst car buying experience of my life

And for a car you haven't purchased yet which is priced the same as ICE versions.

As for the dealer, why didn't you change dealers the first time they did something you didn't like?

Based on MachE, I'd say the 200,000 of us with F150 EV reservations will get the truck we want, at a price competitive with ICE versions from a dealer with whom we have a good relationship.

 

[Roy2001]

The Tesla direct model is pretty much a failure of long waits for service and then parts if you them and poor commuications. Don't think you'll see anyone wanting to imitate the Tesla direct model

After dealing with Tesla, the dealer system looks great.

It is open to debate whether we need dealers for car maintenance/repair, but we can buy truck from Ford directly, and pick up the truck at dealers.

We don't need dealers to prioritize our orders, it is BS.

 

[EaglesPDX]

We don't need dealers to prioritize our orders

When it moves from reservation to order, then it has to be via the dealer.

I get the car dealer (contractor, lawyer) jokes but it is a system that works better than Tesla's direct for service.

But person above had problems with dealer and didn't switch (I switched mine) which I don't understand.

 

[Marshall]

But person above had problems with dealer and didn't switch (I switched mine) which I don't understand.

If you didn't like the dealer you picked it is clearly noted how to change dealers.
...
As for the dealer, why didn't you change dealers the first time they did something you didn't like?

As "the person above" who you can't understand, allow me to enlighten you. I was very clear in the original post that I didn't have a problem with the dealer until AFTER I had placed the order and paid their deposit, not the $100 reservation fee, the deposit. There is no way to change dealers after the order is placed and deposit paid. This was confirmed to me multiple times by Ford Customer Support. But please, if it is "clearly posted" as repeatedly stated, please provide a link, or a screenshot, or anything explainging how it can be done AFTER the order has been placed.

But what's even more astonishing about your claim is that you also state:

I'd say the 200,000 of us with F150 EV reservations will get the truck we want from a dealer with whom we have a good relationship.

Interesting, if you had such a good relationship with your dealer, why did you switch?

... but wait, there's more:

As for the dealer markup, Ford has been very aggressive in fighting it

Really? They literally have a line item in the Dealer Selling Price section of their order form for it, "Difference from Total MSRP".

Also, to aggressively combat dealer markup, you would think that the first step would be them creating an easy way to report it. How does one do that? Even if you call customer support, they don't even make a note of it, they just say, "Some dealers do that, change to a different one." Then when you ask them how to do that after you've placed your order, they say that they don't know and then transfer you to somebody else. Then after the third person you speak with who has said the same thing, they say that the will escalate it and contact you within 3 days ... and then they don't. Ask me how I know all of this.

...and so far, not one instance of an F150EV selling above MSRP.

To begin with, I guess this is a 100% factual statement. But it's equally true that there is not one instance of an F150EV selling at MSRP or below either because none have been sold.

As for dealers marking F150EVs above MSRP, I called all 5 dealers in the OKC area. 2 said that they were selling their reservations / preorders at MSRP, and 3 said they were even marking up orders by reservation holders. 4 of 5 said that they were adding ADM to vehicles on the lot when they get them, and the fifth didn't know (I called after the GM had left). And in fact one of the most popular threads in this forum with over 57,000 views is dedicated to dealers that mark up over MSRP.
*As a side note, I have zero problem with dealers marking up cars / trucks on their lot provided those cars weren't attained by screwing over a reservation holder.

EaglesPDX, I don't see your name on the order list, have you even ordered your Lightning yet?

 

[EaglesPDX]

As "the person above" who you can't understand, allow me to enlighten you. I was very clear in the original post that I didn't have a problem with the dealer until AFTER I had placed the order and paid their deposit, not the $100 reservation fee, the deposit."

Not what you said. You said you put down $100 reservation, called dealer later and they said $3k in dealer adders.

At that point, you continued even though you were having problems instead of switching dealers.

Interesting, if you had such a good relationship with your dealer, why did you switch?

Had no relationship with the 1st dealer. Changed to dealer closer to work.

"Ford Threatens to Pull F-150 Lightning Allocations from Greedy Dealers"

Ford to dealers: Stop playing games with 2022 F-150 Lightning

Ford F-150 Lightning dealer backs down from $10,000 markup

Let Ford (Mike Levine) know if you see dealer ADM on Mach-E

 

[Marshall]

Not what you said. You said you put down $100 reservation, called dealer later and they said $3k in dealer adders.

If that is seriously what you were arguing against, that at least begins to make sense. But that is a complete and total misrepresentation of what I wrote.

I said I was annoyed by the $3k in adders, but was willing to deal with it because it was still a good deal. I was NOT okay with the $20k ADM. Here's the direct quote from the original post:

I ordered online and then put down my $100 placeholder. I spoke to the dealer after the order and they say that they don't add ADM, but they would likely have 3k worth of dealer add-ons, which was annoying, but since pricing had not yet been announced and I knew that the $7500 tax credit would likely still be on the table, I figured that it was still worth it.

Then Jan 6 comes and I had one of the Wave 1 golden tickets! I got my F150 Lightning Pro spec'd, ordered, paid my $1000 deposit and the dealer accepted the order. I was excited.

That excitement turned to profound anger last Friday when the dealer called and said that they would be only getting one F150 Lightning in 2022, and as a result they would be marking my truck up $20k over MSRP because "that's what they are going for" and if I wasn't willing to pay, they would refund my deposit, cancel my order, and configure the truck for somebody else.

I had honestly come to the conclusion that you must just be a troll, but it seems pretty clear that you misread my original post and as a result, you were just arguing against a fundamental misunderstanding of what I wrote.

 

[EaglesPDX]

You had troubles (the $3k markup over MSRP) at the beginning, don't change dealers and then blame Ford for your bad decision.

I've provided a Ford VP's direct account if you have issues, try solving your self created problems vs. blaming them on Ford.

 

[Marshall]

You had troubles (the $3k markup [addons - again with the reading] over MSRP) at the beginning, don't change dealers and then blame Ford for your bad decision. I've provided a Ford VP's direct account if you have issues, try solving your self created problems vs. blaming them on Ford.

Again, I realize that reading is not your strong suit, but as I again very clearly stated in my original post:

This is currently being escalated through the Lightning Team at Ford customer support.

I am going through the proper channels at Ford for resolution before tweeting at a Ford VP (whose account I already had, but thanks). But it is becoming incredibly clear why you have such an issue with Tesla's direct sales model. The bad Musk people made you read stuff, didn't they?

 

[Roy2001]

When it moves from reservation to order, then it has to be via the dealer.

I get the car dealer (contractor, lawyer) jokes but it is a system that works better than Tesla's direct for service.

But person above had problems with dealer and didn't switch (I switched mine) which I don't understand.

No, we don't need dealers, at all. They are redundant.

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