Dealers Rejecting Lightning Reservation Transfers

[CarboTaniumF-150]

*Just wanted to share my own personal experience with you all. Maybe this has happened to you or not, either way I wanted to bring awareness in case this applies to anyone here*

My reservation was made on 5/30, I know I was late to the party and as such I have been bouncing around from one dealer to another, just looking for a chance to get an invite at some point this year for a MY23 or 24. However, yesterday I called a dealer in NJ and I was informed that their admin had a meeting and it was determined that they were no longer "accepting" outside the area reservations. Their objective now is to focus only on local customers to protect their allocations for them. This was the second time I heard of something like this so I asked the person if they were basically turning my business away and he felt uncomfortable saying yes, so he said he "had to get back" to me to confirm this. I called Ford Marketing and provided the dealer info and they are looking into it.

This may be nothing and isolated but I thought I should warn those of you like me fishing for a chance so you don't have your reservation sitting at a dealer that doesn't want to communicate or facilitate the ordering process because they are protecting their allocations from non locals. I can understand their thinking but it still gives me a negative feeling. I had never experienced dealers refusing to work with me because I was from another state. For reference, I am stationed in Virginia and a lot of local dealers either had 1 or 2 allocations for MY22 or they have high ADMs. So my intention was to find a nearby ZEV state. Hope this helps someone.

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[TaxmanHog]

So, what this means is, anyone sitting on the fence, you all better fish or cut bait.
Dealers handling it this way might cause the need for a cleanup wave on 4/1 when all the wave-1-5 offers expire after 3/31

 

[RickLightning]

I applaud any dealer doing this - turning away one-time business from someone out of state to service local, loyal customers.

The idea of buying a vehicle from a ZEV state and taking it to a non-ZEV state flies in the face of one of the benefits of EVs - reducing emissions. While moving the vehicle to another state does result in reduced emissions in that destination state, the incentives to the automaker are designed for the specific ZEV state.

 

[Trick]

This happened to me, I'm in state and the dealer is 20 minutes away. I switch to them because my dealer added a 5k adm. After calling ford they switched me to the dealer, I placed the order and they declined it. I then contacted another dealer that said they would take it, so I called Ford again and asked them to change it to the 3rd dealer, which they did. Logged on to place my order and it says it was rejected by the new dealer but I never placed the order. Called the dealer and they do not know what happened. They reached out to the Ford rep but haven't heard back. Now I'm stuck and cant place an order.

 

[CarboTaniumF-150]

I applaud any dealer doing this - turning away one-time business from someone out of state to service local, loyal customers.

The idea of buying a vehicle from a ZEV state and taking it to a non-ZEV state flies in the face of one of the benefits of EVs - reducing emissions. While moving the vehicle to another state does result in reduced emissions in that destination state, the incentives to the automaker are designed for the specific ZEV state.

Ford's push for more electric vehicles on the road is a national strategy not a state by state one. Currently the car market is upside down but at some point it should stabilize. Let's see what happens to those dealers that have to then rely mostly on local revenue and can't move additional units. Local buyers does not mean automatically loyal, no one can guarantee they will come back. Blocking buyers from non ZEV states access to EVs is not a smart decision. I would argue that in many cases because buyers are from a non ZEV there is a lack of inventory in their home state and there is a higher need/demand. The goal should be to get as many of these reduced emission vehicles on the road period.

I am glad that Ford will take better control of all their EV sales in the future. The rules or purchase guidelines should not be up the dealer to decide as they see fit, when they see fit.

 

[RickLightning]

Ford's push for more electric vehicles on the road is a national strategy not a state by state one. Currently the car market is upside down but at some point it should stabilize. Let's see what happens to those dealers that have to then rely mostly on local revenue and can't move additional units. Local buyers does not mean automatically loyal, no one can guarantee they will come back. Blocking buyers from non ZEV states access to EVs is not a smart decision. I would argue that in many cases because buyers are from a non ZEV there is a lack of inventory in their home state and there is a higher need/demand. The goal should be to get as many of these reduced emission vehicles on the road period.

I am glad that Ford will take better control of all their EV sales in the future. The rules or purchase guidelines should not be up the dealer to decide as they see fit, when they see fit.

Guess you're not aware that the ZEV incentives go to Ford, i.e. they are incentivized to sell cars in ZEV states. Therefore, they ship cars to ZEV states, and they want those cars registered in those states. https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/wh...on Vehicle (ZEV,diesel sales within the state.

No one said the dealer was blocking non-ZEV states buyers, they're blocking ALL non-local buyers. And you'll find similar behavior from non-ZEV state dealers.

If you want more EV vehicles in your state, you should focus on contacting your state officials, i.e. governor and members of your state's legislature. They are the ones that can make your state a ZEV state.

 

[CarboTaniumF-150]

This happened to me, I'm in state and the dealer is 20 minutes away. I switch to them because my dealer added a 5k adm. After calling ford they switched me to the dealer, I placed the order and they declined it. I then contacted another dealer that said they would take it, so I called Ford again and asked them to change it to the 3rd dealer, which they did. Logged on to place my order and it says it was rejected by the new dealer but I never placed the order. Called the dealer and they do not know what happened. They reached out to the Ford rep but haven't heard back. Now I'm stuck and cant place an order.

I hope it works out for you. This is such a mess, I can see why Ford now wants to take full control of their EV sales. It's crazy how challenging this has become.

 

[GDN]

A lot of talk about switching dealers and allocations. I don't think we have any real world knowledge do we that this is happening?

Once a reservation holder gets an "OK to order" email - is that allocation tied to the reservation holder or to the dealership? I'm OK with opinions on this, but without a really good dealer weighing in here we don't know that.

Traditionally allocations went to dealers who then got to order the number allotted to them for stock on their lots or for special orders for customers.

No one seems to know at all what allocations for the Lightning looked like. Truly the dealers don't seem to know or every one of them have held it very close to their chest. The information is all over the place. It seems maybe some high level numbers were alloted by ZEV state and maybe by dealer, but this information is truly unknown. Once a truck is allocated to an individual to order, it seems it belongs to that invidual.

I believe the dealers are probably getting pissed at each other for allowing us to move from one to another to avoid ADM. There is nothing that has shown that moving from one dealer to another bumps someone else further down the line from ordering.

 

[RavenYZF-R6]

A lot of talk about switching dealers and allocations. I don't think we have any real world knowledge do we that this is happening?

Once a reservation holder gets an "OK to order" email - is that allocation tied to the reservation holder or to the dealership? I'm OK with opinions on this, but without a really good dealer weighing in here we don't know that.

Traditionally allocations went to dealers who then got to order the number allotted to them for stock on their lots or for special orders for customers.

No one seems to know at all what allocations for the Lightning looked like. Truly the dealers don't seem to know or every one of them have held it very close to their chest. The information is all over the place. It seems maybe some high level numbers were alloted by ZEV state and maybe by dealer, but this information is truly unknown. Once a truck is allocated to an individual to order, it seems it belongs to that invidual.

I believe the dealers are probably getting pissed at each other for allowing us to move from one to another to avoid ADM. There is nothing that has shown that moving from one dealer to another bumps someone else further down the line from ordering.

The only thing I’ve seen is where one or two on here were moving dealers when they were allowed to order and Ford denied their request for a couple dealers as they had already used up their allocations. They were still able to choose from other options. To me this means that when you move dealers you use up one of that dealers units and bumps somebody down the line a little.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Logged on to place my order and it says it was rejected by the new dealer but I never placed the order. Called the dealer and they do not know what happened. They reached out to the Ford rep but haven't heard back. Now I'm stuck and cant place an order.

They may need to reset the order process

 

[GDN]

The only thing I’ve seen is where one or two on here were moving dealers when they were allowed to order and Ford denied their request for a couple dealers as they had already used up their allocations. They were still able to choose from other options. To me this means that when you move dealers you use up one of that dealers units and bumps somebody down the line a little.

Thanks I've missed that Ford had denied them moving, but thought it was dealers and we didn't have real reasoning.

I was likely one of the first to move. I had a Jan 6 email to order and moved on Jan 10. I called the new dealer and they said they were glad to have my order as they couldn't figure out why others had not been placing their order. I moved to a fairly large dealer in the DFW metroplex. I proceeded to place my order on Jan 10 and the dealership accepted it right away. I've never asked what their full backlog looked like.

I just know my experience was easy and up front. I can see it getting crazier now that we are 2 months in, however I didn't know if we had real stories about the allocations.

 

[Tell It Right]

Guess you're not aware that the ZEV incentives go to Ford, i.e. they are incentivized to sell cars in ZEV states. Therefore, they ship cars to ZEV states, and they want those cars registered in those states. https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/what-zev#:~:text=The Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV,diesel sales within the state.

No one said the dealer was blocking non-ZEV states buyers, they're blocking ALL non-local buyers. And you'll find similar behavior from non-ZEV state dealers.

If you want more EV vehicles in your state, you should focus on contacting your state officials, i.e. governor and members of your state's legislature. They are the ones that can make your state a ZEV state.

The ZEV thing is a ridiculous "metric". I live in Alabama, which is politically a red state. Yet of all states east of the Rockies it's #2 in hydro electricity -- the cleanest electrical production possible. Plus, I personally have a 10 kW solar system on my roof with 30 kWh of battery storage. I basically average 2.55 hours per day in which my solar batteries are fully charged and have nowhere for excess power to go -- the main reason I made a reservation for a F-150L. Currently the solar system produces 55% of all the power I needed last year in my all-electric two-story house. I have no plans to upgrade my solar system unless I get an EV. if I do I've already done the math on doubling my solar panels and inverter to 20 kW, while tripling my storage to 90 kWh to give me 85% to 90% of all power, including charging my F-150L to drive it ~200 miles per week like I already drive my old used pickup. Basically I'm in a good solar situation (the south) where most of my power consumed (running my variable speed heat pump during the hot summer days) is during the parts of the year I get the most sun anyway (the summer) so I've taken advantage of that to produce as much power as I can in a way it'll pay for itself in 10-12 years (based on last year's throughput).

Ain't too many people more "non-ZEV" that that, particularly in blue states where the pollution talk is all talk with little to show for it besides heavily polluted Los Angeles with Californian being notified of scheduled brownouts.. But hey, what do I know? I'm just a software engineer specializing on the data nerd side who makes a living analyzing situations and designing software to provide practical solutions.

 

[RickLightning]

Nothing to disagree with there.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

The ZEV thing is a ridiculous "metric". I live in Alabama, which is politically a red state. Yet of all states east of the Rockies it's #2 in hydro electricity -- the cleanest electrical production possible. Plus, I personally have a 10 kW solar system on my roof with 30 kWh of battery storage. I basically average 2.55 hours per day in which my solar batteries are fully charged and have nowhere for excess power to go -- the main reason I made a reservation for a F-150L. Currently the solar system produces 55% of all the power I needed last year in my all-electric two-story house. I have no plans to upgrade my solar system unless I get an EV. if I do I've already done the math on doubling my solar panels and inverter to 20 kW, while tripling my storage to 90 kWh to give me 85% to 90% of all power, including charging my F-150L to drive it ~200 miles per week like I already drive my old used pickup. Basically I'm in a good solar situation (the south) where most of my power consumed (running my variable speed heat pump during the hot summer days) is during the parts of the year I get the most sun anyway (the summer) so I've taken advantage of that to produce as much power as I can in a way it'll pay for itself in 10-12 years (based on last year's throughput).

Ain't too many people more "non-ZEV" that that, particularly in blue states where the pollution talk is all talk with little to show for it besides heavily polluted Los Angeles with Californian being notified of scheduled brownouts.. But hey, what do I know? I'm just a software engineer specializing on the data nerd side who makes a living analyzing situations and designing software to provide practical solutions.

Glad you are enjoying your solar system, same here, in Mississippi. Driving electric is the cherry on top! But I’ll have to disagree on effectiveness of ZEV rules, and the example you used (L.A.) illustrates this perfectly: I have relatives there, and according to them the air quality has improved tremendously in the last few decades. From “unbreathable” to pretty good. ZEV definitely works as intended in densely populated areas.

 

[ExCivilian]

Nothing to disagree with there.

Other than the fact that, as of 2010, AL had 3.8M drivers whereas CA had 23.7M.

Not sure how long it will take them to calculate data from the newer census. https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2010/dl1c.cfm

the example you used (L.A.) illustrates this perfectly: I have relatives there, and according to them the air quality has improved tremendously in the last few decades.

40 years ago eyes stung just walking around or sitting in traffic. Acid rain was a thing (might still be but then we heard about it on the evening news, which itself is barely a thing anymore but I digress) along with holes in the ozone. Anyone curious should look at old horizon pictures...of what little was visible anyway.

I was born and raised in San Diego and sadly our air quality is one of the worst in the nation now while LA County has become one of the healthiest metro areas. LA County has roughly three times the population of San Diego County, too.

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