Federal administration proposes new rules for EV charging stations

[Nate977p]

The battle will only heat up with the coming SAE 240 V specifications for L3 (due in the next year or two)
As someone that plays in this area on a day-to-day basis, I want to make sure everyone knows (if not uses) the proper terminology. There is no L3 on the 240V or the DCFC at this time.

I myself used to use the term L3 for DCFC at one time, but I cannot now to maintain credibility in this segment of the industry.

Can you better explain this? It sounds like you are saying DCFC has different levels (which makes a ton of sense). I thought I was well versed in EV space (4 year Model 3 owner and bit of a data nerd) and always thought it was:
-L1: 120v
-L2: 240v (amps vary of course)
-L3: DCFC (regards if 50kW or 350kW)

Thanks for sharing!

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[EVBill]

Actually I feel that the infrastructure is there for the major highways. We had no issues driving from Madison, WI to San Diego. Great charging all the way.

Only on the way back did we run into a bit of trouble at the very end, because we “couldn’t” charge to more than 80% at EA.

There are large gaps on I-75 in Michigan going all the way down to Cincinnati, Ohio. No high speed DC chargers(100kW or more) on I-69 from the Michigan/Canada border all the way to Indianapolis, Indiana.

 

[wheelz2000]

Actually I feel that the infrastructure is there for the major highways. We had no issues driving from Madison, WI to San Diego. Great charging all the way.

Only on the way back did we run into a bit of trouble at the very end, because we “couldn’t” charge to more than 80% at EA.

Yes...you are describing major highways and like 100 miles on interstates..
What about regular highways and all interstates. The places I go in the Midwest have only destination chargers where I had to charge the model 3 I had at least 4 hrs cause they only charge at 25mph....
So yeah depending on where you are going, some places, the routes are plentiful with chargers, but there is lots of growing room out there. The nearest supercharger in my area is 60 miles to the north. But I've got two truck stop within 10 miles of my location. Imagine if either truck stop had a supercharger and they are just off I-29 between omaha and KC MO. Currently, if one wants to travel from the north say south Dakota, they must recharge in lake Manawa in order to make it the rest of the way to Kansas city or even st Joseph MO. I bet other folks on this forum have similar situations in their areas around the nation.

 

[Beans]

The battle will only heat up with the coming SAE 240 V specifications for L3 (due in the next year or two)
As someone that plays in this area on a day-to-day basis, I want to make sure everyone knows (if not uses) the proper terminology. There is no L3 on the 240 V or the DCFC at this time.

I myself used to use the term L3 for DCFC at one time, but I cannot now to maintain credibility in this segment of the industry.

This is good to know. I work in the utility industry and L3 is always used when talking about DC chargers. Most articles also talk about three levels, here's an example: https://www.forbes.com/wheels/advice/ev-charging-levels/

 

[hturnerfamily]

yep, the L3 vs DC Fast Charger terminology won't really matter to most anybody, anymore than folks who use the term "110v", versus the correct "120v", etc. To most owners they don't nerd-out on whether the correct terms are used, they just plug in. I suspect most folks also think that all 240v power has the typical Neutral wire, like any other outlet, right? Nope. The EV L2 charger doesn't, it doesn't need one, even though you may use a NEMA 14-50, a 4-prong plug, with a Neutral prong.

It's all good, no matter what 'terminology' someone mentions. We know what they mean.

 

[lancersrock]

It's a desert North of Madison/Milwaukee with the exception of a few 25kW chargers at car dealerships. It has made it hard to visit family in Northern WI in my current EV.

EA is scheduled to to build stations in Wausau and Green Bay so it'll get better very soon.

Holiday Inn in Appleton has several chargers, i stay there a lot for work (part of my plan to make an ER my work vehicle)

 

[vandy1981]

Holiday Inn in Appleton has several chargers, i stay there a lot for work (part of my plan to make an ER my work vehicle)

I don't think they're fast chargers though.

 

[lancersrock]

I don't think they're fast chargers though.

You are most likely correct, i havent had to close of a look yet.

 

[Roy2001]

Please make sure DC chargers are 250kW or more.

 

[GDN]

Please make sure DC chargers are 250kW or more.

Read through the thread and this was going to be my comment too. This has to be a new minimum. Anything less than that and you'll just create lines of people waiting to charge.

Ford has screwed the pooch on 2022 Lightning with a max of 150 KWh. The largest battery on the road almost, brand new truck and that is all they can put in it ? Yep I'm going to be driving one, but that doesn't mean I won't be critical of it.

I also think they are crazy for "No App". Why? Every one of the cars charging there are going to be connected and it truly can make the station much less complicated if you interacted through an app. LIkely less damange and vandalism vs requiring it to be done at the station.

Leave it to our government to always be a step or two behind.

 

[Maquis]

Can you better explain this? It sounds like you are saying DCFC has different levels (which makes a ton of sense). I thought I was well versed in EV space (4 year Model 3 owner and bit of a data nerd) and always thought it was:
-L1: 120v
-L2: 240v (amps vary of course)
-L3: DCFC (regards if 50kW or 350kW)

Thanks for sharing!

Technically, only AC EVSEs have “levels”. Currently, L1 is 120V, L2 includes all 240V.
Over time, people started calling DCFCs “Level 3” which is wrong. It’s bantered about by folks from EV owners to online influencers and even automotive journals. To the point that it’s been generally accepted by most to call DCFCs “Level 3”…but it’s still incorrect.
DCFCs are simply rated in KW, just like different Level 2s are rated in amps.

 

[jerock]

Read through the thread and this was going to be my comment too. This has to be a new minimum. Anything less than that and you'll just create lines of people waiting to charge.

Ford has screwed the pooch on 2022 Lightning with a max of 150 KWh. The largest battery on the road almost, brand new truck and that is all they can put in it ? Yep I'm going to be driving one, but that doesn't mean I won't be critical of it.

I also think they are crazy for "No App". Why? Every one of the cars charging there are going to be connected and it truly can make the station much less complicated if you interacted through an app. LIkely less damange and vandalism vs requiring it to be done at the station.

Leave it to our government to always be a step or two behind.

Seems terrible doesn't it. The government is going to help speed the adoption of EV's by installing at least 4 DC Minimum 150 KW chargers every 50 miles on Federal Highways. With a requirement they are in service over 97% of the time. They will be putting them in places where priviate companies probably would not find economically feasable at this early state. I would pay cash at the charger if I had to in some sparse areas.

 

[Roy2001]

Ford has screwed the pooch on 2022 Lightning with a max of 150 KWh.

150kW is definitely disappointing, but the impact is not as large as the number indicated. It is the charging curve that matters! Even if it is ben designed as 250kW max, the average kW won't be much higher. I expect 250kW would save 5 min for 15-80% DC charge. The simplest way to tell the true difference is to compare to Rivian R1T.

The key is 800V, which I believe Ford would implement that for 2nd generation Lightning..

 

[GDN]

Seems terrible doesn't it. The government is going to help speed the adoption of EV's by installing at least 4 DC Minimum 150 KW chargers every 50 miles on Federal Highways. With a requirement they are in service over 97% of the time. They will be putting them in places where priviate companies probably would not find economically feasable at this early state. I would pay cash at the charger if I had to in some sparse areas.

There was no minimum included. That is the key.

 

[ShirBlackspots]

Technically, only AC EVSEs have “levels”. Currently, L1 is 120V, L2 includes all 240V.
Over time, people started calling DCFCs “Level 3” which is wrong. It’s bantered about by folks from EV owners to online influencers and even automotive journals. To the point that it’s been generally accepted by most to call DCFCs “Level 3”…but it’s still incorrect.
DCFCs are simply rated in KW, just like different Level 2s are rated in amps.

-->The levels of charging:<--
NEC 1999 standards
Level 1: (1Φ AC) 120V, up to 24A (up to 2.88kW)
Level 2: (1Φ AC) 208/240V up to 32A (up to 7.68kW)
Level 3: (3Φ AC) 480V, 400A - 332.6kW

J1772 2017 Standards
Level 1: 120V, up to 16 (120V, 20A circuit) - up to 1.92kW
Level 2: 240V, up to 80A (240V, 100A circuit) - up to 19.2kW
Level 3: Does not exist under the J1772 standard

There are two levels of DC Fast Charging:
DC Level 1: Supplies a maximum of 80 kW at 50–1000 V.
DC Level 2: Supplies a maximum of 400 kW at 50–1000 V.

I'm possibly going to assume that a Level 3 will have to be created for DCFC higher than 400kW

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