First test ride towing our travel trailer (1.0 mi/kWh on 40-70 MPH loop)

[vandy1981]

I completely understand that people are going to want to tow with the Lightning. But this truck seems very premature for being used for that purpose.

I think it's hard to speak for everyone that wants to tow with an EV.

Every individual is going to have a different personal tolerance threshold for the compromises they're going to have to make towing with an EV. That's in addition to the dozens of other variables that are going to impact the equation, such as average towing distance and trailer characteristics.

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[jb56]

I think it's hard to speak for everyone that wants to tow with an EV.

Every individual is going to have a different personal tolerance threshold for the compromises they're going to have to make towing with an EV. That's in addition to the dozens of other variables that are going to impact the equation, such as average towing distance and trailer characteristics.

Sure, there are definitely different situations for different people. But generally speaking, the lightning and the existing available charging in most places is a newborn baby when it comes to towing.

I mean, I guess if you are talking about towing a little pop-up trailer or flat bed or something ,we are in different territory, but if you are talking about a boat or camper, the range is probably under 150 miles in almost every case. (Unless you are charging to 100% and reducing to near 0% to squeeze out a bit more).

And the infrastructure in place for EV charging is just not built in almost any place for that limited of range.

But I'll amend my statement. The Lightning and the non-tesla charging infrastructure is just not ready for people who want to tow campers and boats long distances.

For example, there is a camp spot that is about 75 miles from my city and there is basically no place to charge in between here and there. I would be very worried about towing out there and having enough juice to get back.

Premature seems like the right word

 

[beatle]

I think it's hard to speak for everyone that wants to tow with an EV.

Every individual is going to have a different personal tolerance threshold for the compromises they're going to have to make towing with an EV. That's in addition to the dozens of other variables that are going to impact the equation, such as average towing distance and trailer characteristics.

Indeed, everyone's personal situation and scenario is different. Different trailers, distances, locations, tolerances for charging stops, ability to have a second tow vehicle, etc. The most important thing is to provide people the data and personal perspective and let them make and live with their own decisions on whether it is right for them.

 

[jb56]

Indeed, everyone's personal situation and scenario is different. Different trailers, distances, locations, tolerances for charging stops, ability to have a second tow vehicle, etc. The most important thing is to provide people the data and personal perspective and let them make and live with their own decisions on whether it is right for them.

I get what you two are saying here and certainly everyone has to decide based on their own factors, but I also think people should look at the lightning as a wildly innovative and early-adopter type vehicle that is not ready for primetime when it comes to towing at distance. In 5 years, ultra-high-speed-charging stations might be at every gas station and towing range might be 250 miles. But right now, most people in most places are going to have a terrible time towing a camper more than 75 miles away with their lightning.

I have solar panels on my house, I commute 20 miles each way every day, and I have a preference for a truck to use for transporting motorcycles and mountain bikes and do occasional landscaping projects and things like that. So the lightning is pretty great for me. On the other hand, about once a year we rent a camper and tow it about 300 miles each way, and the prospect of doing that in Utah with a Lightning seems very very miserable.

 

[vandy1981]

I get what you two are saying here and certainly everyone has to decide based on their own factors, but I also think people should look at the lightning as a wildly innovative and early-adopter type vehicle that is not ready for primetime when it comes to towing at distance.

I agree that the Lightning is not going to be great for long-haul towing. I was responding to your original post that implied that the Lightning would not be useful for any type of towing.

Again, use cases and personal preferences are going to vary widely. You've got to start somewhere and the Lightning is a solid first product in the BEV truck segment.

 

[Mathington]

coming from the RVing and camping experiences for many years, in a big diesel pusher motorhome with 50amp 240v service, the 'EV charging at a campsite' might create some questions for campground and rv park owners - they can be a very 'rules oriented' bunch. While you have access to possibly the 240v 50amp outlet, the owners of the park may not be so understanding if you plug your truck into in, versus plugging your camper into it.

I would try to 'minimize' the look of charging a vehicle, if possible, and keep it discreet. Yes, park owners are not going to like the idea of the regular overnight fee encompassing a use of 100kwh or more of power. They may set their rate on an 'average' of 20kwh or less. I have even seen some parks that will ask, and then promptly INCREASE their rate, if you have TWO roof air conditioners, and they will also PROHIBIT the use of electric-based heating, in the winter months.

Will there be campgrounds and rv park owners that EMBRACE the EV lifestyle and WELCOME EV owners? Yes. and they will ADVERTISE and draw customers based on that. They see what's coming, and they are ready for it. They may adjust their pricing to reflect it, or may even put you into a site which has it's own METER, charging you the balance above the 'average' amount. That's actually a current common practice for monthly RV sites - the monthly price is for the site, you pay an additional electrical fee each month based on your usage.

It's going to be tough to 'hide' your Lightning's charge port door and charging handle, if needed, but you can get creative. Who knows, maybe you're actually allowing your truck to 'charge' your RV!

We have a somewhat 'local' campground, off I75 in middle Georgia, which advertising it's capability to charge EVs - you simply pay a fee, $10 I believe, to occupy a camp site for as many hours as you need to. Now, if you also have a camper, that's a different story - you pay the regular overnight rate, whether you're staying overnight or not. : )

Personally, now that I have an EV, I look for RV or tenting campgrounds that offer electrical services on the site and it's a huge draw for someone like myself who camps with an EV.

I have seen local RV campgrounds just have a flat rate per kWh that they charge for electrical use. Personally, I don't mind paying this at all for the flexibility the on-site power provides with an EV and RV.

Treat the customers right and you will be rewarded by this new wave of EV owners!

 

[greenne]

I get what you two are saying here and certainly everyone has to decide based on their own factors, but I also think people should look at the lightning as a wildly innovative and early-adopter type vehicle that is not ready for primetime when it comes to towing at distance. In 5 years, ultra-high-speed-charging stations might be at every gas station and towing range might be 250 miles. But right now, most people in most places are going to have a terrible time towing a camper more than 75 miles away with their lightning.

I have solar panels on my house, I commute 20 miles each way every day, and I have a preference for a truck to use for transporting motorcycles and mountain bikes and do occasional landscaping projects and things like that. So the lightning is pretty great for me. On the other hand, about once a year we rent a camper and tow it about 300 miles each way, and the prospect of doing that in Utah with a Lightning seems very very miserable.

Deciding to "look" at the lightning as wildly innovative/early adopter is a bit of a stretch. It works for a wide range of use cases. Just because it can't tow long distances doesn't mean its not mainstream.

There are probably 500,000 gas f150 owners who never tow anything over a few tousand lbs and/or tow long distances.

I understand it doesn't work for these cases, but they are just one piece at play.

 

[jb56]

Deciding to "look" at the lightning as wildly innovative/early adopter is a bit of a stretch. It works for a wide range of use cases. Just because it can't tow long distances doesn't mean its not mainstream.

There are probably 500,000 gas f150 owners who never tow anything over a few tousand lbs and/or tow long distances.

I understand it doesn't work for these cases, but they are just one piece at play.

Ok, but this is a thread about towing and the massively reduced range and frustrating charging process.

 

[vandy1981]

There are probably 500,000 gas f150 owners who never tow anything over a few tousand lbs and/or tow long distances.

I guarantee it's a lot more than that, especially when you account for fleets and contractors/subcontractors.

 

[greenne]

Ok, but this is a thread about towing and the massively reduced range and frustrating charging process.

And towing shorter distances is no problem at all. I would argue for town, to your local boat ramp, etc. the lightning tows better than an ICE f150.

 

[Easycamper]

My last two campsites were 34 miles and 58 miles from home. That’s my use case so I’m really not concerned with range.

 

[lightspeed]

It is somewhat disappointing that Ford made no effort to cater towards people with real towing needs. The base battery should be 131kWh and the extended battery should be 200kWh (or more). I'm surprised that I never see people asking for a bigger battery in these and other forums.

This product needs to be exceptional, not just adequate, because for many people, this truck will set their perception on the reality of EV readiness. Instead of the discussion always swinging towards range anxiety, it would be better if people were amazed at how well it tows with decent range so that the delta from gas truck towing wasn't so large.

I think we all understand that in its current form, the Lightning is a suburban, commuter, light duty truck with the ability to tow short distances, and that will be enough for a lot of people.

But if GM can put 200kWh in the Silverado EV, then Ford can too. If GM can charge at 350kWs then Ford can tool. Lastly, fix the EA chargers (or use Tesla's) and suddenly you have very little reason to not want an EV truck.

 

[greenne]

It is somewhat disappointing that Ford made no effort to cater towards people with real towing needs. The base battery should be 131kWh and the extended battery should be 200kWh (or more). I'm surprised that I never see people asking for a bigger battery in these and other forums.

This product needs to be exceptional, not just adequate, because for many people, this truck will set their perception on the reality of EV readiness. Instead of the discussion always swinging towards range anxiety, it would be better if people were amazed at how well it tows with decent range so that the delta from gas truck towing wasn't so large.

I think we all understand that in its current form, the Lightning is a suburban, commuter, light duty truck with the ability to tow short distances, and that will be enough for a lot of people.

But if GM can put 200kWh in the Silverado EV, then Ford can too. If GM can charge at 350kWs then Ford can tool. Lastly, fix the EA chargers (or use Tesla's) and suddenly you have very little reason to not want an EV truck.

If you're looking at GM as an example of what Ford should do, remember Silverado is at least 12 months away and the Lightning is on sale now. The HUMMER EV has a large battery but its heavier and on an HD frame. It weighs 9000lbs and has horrible efficiency.

Going with a bigger battery(for towing) has tradeoffs....

I'm not even going to give credit to the shitshow that is Cybertruck...

 

[lightspeed]

Hummer EV is a novelty product, but the Silverado WT is mass market and will offer 200kWh battery. I agree, it's not out yet, but there is little reason to believe it won't do what they say. It is unibody though so we'll see what impact that has.

Cybertruck is going to out-spec Ford and GM (better range, higher payload, higher towing, etc.) and might be a superior product overall, but it's still years away from volume manufacture. I'm on the list but don't expect to get one for 3 years from now.

 

[Kev12345]

I'm not even going to give credit to the shitshow that is Cybertruck...

if it actually has 500 miles of range for the same price as a lightning you'll have to give it some credit! It'll be the only EV truck that can actually tow long distance with reliable chargers.

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