EV Tax Credit Expansion Deal Reached by Senate

[Nick Gerteis]

I'm a strong proponent of renewables and I wish I could say I agree with you but, unfortunately, the new bill links development of renewables with the development of fossil fuels. I have been fighting for a sustainable future for decades. I have grown pretty dispassionate about sustainability goals.

But we are making so very serious sustainability achievements now and those achievements are disruptive to say the least. I believe that over the next decade or two there are going to be segments of the populations across the globe that are going to be very, very upset and violently opposed to the changeover to renewables and electric vehicles. The more governments force the change, the more resistance there will be.

I understand your concerns, but don’t see where anyone is forced to do anything. The government handing out “free” money like it’s candy might not be sound policy, but tax credits and deductions are a valid and usually widely accepted tool to effect societal progress. Mortgage interest deduction is a good example.
As for people complaining…..oh well. The dogs are howling, but the train just keeps on rolling.

Sponsored

 

[RavenYZF-R6]

Is the $7,500 tax credit all of us prospective F150L buyers are hoping for really important enough to us to make these kinds of concessions to the fossil fuel industry?

Yup…

 

[Lightninorian]

Musk will have colonized Mars before fossil fuels and coal are not used in great supply. No matter how "green" we go, we will continue to overpopulate this planet. A habitat can only sustain a certain amount of life. Sure we can try different fuels and technologies but bottom line is even if we clean up our act by 25% in 10 years if our population grows by 10% in that same timeframe, we are even worse off than now. One day there will be to many people on this planet no matter how "sustainable" we are. It's just not sustainable. If the thinkers of today feel the completely inhospitable environment of Mars will be better than earth in the future, how screwed are our grandchildren. But they are unwilling to talk about birthrates because business and economies rely on population increases. If we limit birthrate economies will slowly shrink because of fewer customers. They are unwilling to risk that. Even if it means a healthier planet and positive outlook for mankind. If every couple has 2 kids, our population stabilizes and slowly reduces over time (natural deaths, accidents, illness) with a better future for everyone.
Feel free to ignore, argue, or accept my statements, but I won't respond. I'll be to busy ghost riding this whip we call earth into the ground. With my oversized EV (if it ever gets here) pulling my wakesurfing boat that burns over 8 gallons an hour while riding that endless wave. We get one life, live it well. When it comes to this planet, we are all in this together. Can't we all just get along and work together.
Enjoy.

 

[Texas Dan]

I understand your concerns, but don’t see where anyone is forced to do anything. The government handing out “free” money like it’s candy might not be sound policy, but tax credits and deductions are a valid and usually widely accepted tool to effect societal progress. Mortgage interest deduction is a good example.
As for people complaining…..oh well. The dogs are howling, but the train just keeps on rolling.

Of course, people see things differently, but I could project that the violence of 6-JAN-2021 was a result of how some people perceived the new administrations planned climate change policies. The CAFE standards keep getting stricter every year and CARB states are setting ZEV dates. Some people see that train coming very fast and think they are stuck on the tracks in its' path.

 

[Amps]

Of course, people see things differently, but I could project that the violence of 6-JAN-2021 was a result of how some people perceived the new administrations planned climate change policies.

lol They weren't trying to pull off a coup at the seat of government because of EVs and greenhouse gas emissions.

 

[Rillem]

The biggest win is the credit being applied at the Point of Sale instead of a credit when filing your taxes. So you aren't having to finance the $7500 when buying the vehicle.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

Of course, people see things differently, but I could project that the violence of 6-JAN-2021 was a result of how some people perceived the new administrations planned climate change policies. The CAFE standards keep getting stricter every year and CARB states are setting ZEV dates. Some people see that train coming very fast and think they are stuck on the tracks in its' path.

Thank you for trying to be generous, but I think the motivations behind that day’s events were probably a LOT less nuanced than you’re willing to give credit for.

 

[Texas Dan]

lol They weren't trying to pull off a coup at the seat of government because of EVs and greenhouse gas emissions.

It's about loss of control. When people feel like they are losing control they get violent.

 

[Texas Dan]

Thank you for trying to be generous, but I think the motivations behind that day’s events were probably a LOT less nuanced than you’re willing to give credit for.

We have seen if for years; EVs getting vandalized, ICEs intentionally blocking EV chargers, fights at EV charging stations, etc. As EVs become more prevalent acts against EVs are only going to get worse. When the governments start requiring over 50% of all new vehicles to be EVs or ZEVs I think the animosity against EVs, EV systems, EV owners is going to get real bad.

 

[broncoaz]

We have seen if for years; EVs getting vandalized, ICEs intentionally blocking EV chargers, fights at EV charging stations, etc. As EVs become more prevalent acts against EVs are only going to get worse. When the governments start requiring over 50% of all new vehicles to be EVs or ZEVs I think the animosity against EVs, EV systems, EV owners is going to get real bad.

You live in the free state of Texas, so you are welcome to defend yourself with the ultimate equalizer. I think the opposite, as EV's become more ubiquitous they will blend in more to the point where nobody cares.

Many of the early adopters of EV's had/have a holier than thou attitude about their enlightened choice of vehicle vs the neanderthals still running ICE, giving themselves a bad name. The Tesla driver attitude resulted in the ICEing of charging stations by rednecks and other acts of protest. I'm not saying it's right, but they largely brought it on themselves. I ran into this attitude at a cocktail party recently when the general subject of cars came up. I mentioned my new Bronco and the first question was if it was EV, then it was dismissed from conversation because it was ICE. They continued on to compare the size of their electrons, I didn't even mention my Lightning order as I didn't want to fit in with their little club. I may have to debadge mine so they don't identify me as one of their group.

People will push back against government mandates that are against their interests, it doesn't matter which side it is or the topic. Changing minds takes time. Gov't mandated short range EV's that are perceived to restrict people's movements are unpopular in a freedom loving country. The reality is that EV's are still burning fossil fuels in many places, so we're just shifting the emissions from a fugitive source (individual vehicles) to a point source (power plant stack), so the emissions benefit is very debatable. The power grid is not ready for the mandated shift to EV's, so that will cause brown outs and other problems like they are seeing in CA now. The answer is a blended approach including significant investment in new nuclear power, as the folks in TX are well aware renewables aren't reliable enough to be the primary source of grid power. Take a look at energy policy from the EU and you can see that their green energy mandates aren't working well, especially when Putin shuts off their fossil fuels.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

We have seen if for years; EVs getting vandalized, ICEs intentionally blocking EV chargers, fights at EV charging stations, etc. As EVs become more prevalent acts against EVs are only going to get worse. When the governments start requiring over 50% of all new vehicles to be EVs or ZEVs I think the animosity against EVs, EV systems, EV owners is going to get real bad.

Oh no. These are the actions of weak cowards. They will only act while they feel it’s safe to do so, and they’ll only feel that way as long as they’re picking on a tiny minority, like today’s EV owners. Any increase in EV numbers, they won’t feel like that’s safe anymore, and they’ll just blame their problems on something else.

 

[Pioneer74]

Ugh, have a MSRP of $80,689 on my invoice. Really looking forward to @TaxmanHog's take on this as I am not a public accountant. Wondering about seeing if dealer can still add FCSP Delete and then I could just buy it separately...

I asked about this today because I don't plan on using it. My salesman says this is only an option for fleet buyers.

 

[Sam James]

I asked about this today because I don't plan on using it. My salesman says this is only an option for fleet buyers.

Ugh. I'm still waiting for my dealer's finance department to see if they can just display it as dropped and then add it back on as a separate line item. Our utility company just started to offer a rebate but require the EVSE to be an itemized purchase, because they must be difficult. Was hoping the fact that you can order it separate would be enough to demonstrate that it's an "option" (since you have to buy an ER to get it).

 

[ExCivilian]

The biggest win is the credit being applied at the Point of Sale instead of a credit when filing your taxes. So you aren't having to finance the $7500 when buying the vehicle.

Currently, how much of that $7,500 I receive is negotiated with the IRS related to my earnings.

If I have to do that negotiation at the table at a dealership I just don't see any way this will work out positively for the consumer.

 

[Rillem]

It does state the the dealer can apply the credit at time of sale so it doesn’t appear to be mandatory. So if the buyer prefers to defer the credit to their tax refund I would assume they still could.

Sponsored