Senate votes to place a $40,000 price cap on EV tax credit.

[Hullguy]

Good thing I come to this site for information and not politics!

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[Dadofjax]

Who is forcing the automakers to be 1/2 electric? (Not the US gov't). Thats nowhere close to the truth. The gov't is suggesting a goal of 40-50% by 2030...I think the market will support that way before any government intervention.

All the rush so far is being done by demand...if Tesla, MME, Lightning, CT. etc are any sign there is a market developing

I said the gov't is by 2025 you claim that is nowhere near the case then state the US Gov't is actually said 50% by 2030. So which is it? You said I was way off then repeat the same thing except 5 years which is probably closer to what Biden said.

BTW if you read the rest of what I said, I said I am not against EVs I just think the rush to demand people buy EVs is going to backfire.

Dec'20 was EVs best year in the US at 2.8% of new car sales.
2021 projection is 3.5%
By 2025 that projection is going to be 10%

In 2020 The Ford Motor Company sold 787,422 F-series trucks
So far in 2021 (ending Q2) Ford has sold 12k mach-e compared to 35K regular mustangs.

I can keep posting facts for you but I don't think it will do any good you were obviously just looking for a forum fight, probably head over to reddit for that.

EVs are great, I can't wait to get my hands on the lightning but no way they will replace the gas powered F150 by 2025 or 2030 or 2035 not with the current battery technology. Not with how EVs handle Midwest/northern winters, not with their current price.

 

[Sapphire]

… The gov't forcing auto makers to make 1/2 their vehicles by 2025 electric …

The government has a non-binding goal for 50% of new cars and trucks to be EV by 2030. It’s just symbolic, auto makers aren’t being forced to meet it. I agree, the market will decide what the actual mix will be.

 

[Blainestang]

Dec'20 was EVs best year in the US at 2.8% of new car sales.
2021 projection is 3.5%
By 2025 that projection is going to be 10%

Innovation adoption is often non-linear. The rate of adoption is likely to accelerate.

Even if it's 10% in 2025, it could be 50% in 2030.

So far in 2021 (ending Q2) Ford has sold 12k mach-e compared to 35K regular mustangs.

I don't think Mach E vs 2-door Mustang is all that meaningful, but since you brought it up, Ford has actually built more Mach Es this year than "regular" Mustangs. They're just sending many of them to Europe due to regulation, there.

And they literally can't build them fast enough and some people are paying big markups to get them, so the number sold doesn't necessarily reflect actual demand. What they would have sold if they could build them faster would likely be much higher. Same with Tesla.

EVs are great, I can't wait to get my hands on the lightning but no way they will replace the gas powered F150 by 2025 or 2030 or 2035 not with the current battery technology. Not with how EVs handle Midwest/northern winters, not with their current price.

EVs won't have current technology or price in 2025, 2030, or 2035.

Further, the price is very competitive, already. The Lighting Pro is way, WAY cheaper than a comparable gas XL Supercrew 4x4 Powerboost with similar options, for instance.

Also, non-commercial trucks *are* one of the more difficult use cases to electrify. If the overall market is at 50% EVs for new cars, that may mean trucks are at 40% and everything else 60% or something like that. They don't have to completely replace gas trucks for every use case to get the overall market to 50%.

 

[Diabolical!]

Jesus. Can we call it a tie?

 

[Slappy McGee]

The EV credit really is a bit of a “rich mans” credit (coming from someone the govt defines as “rich” which seems to be any person or family making more than $100K. My high-minded side is opposed, but my practical side is tired of everyone else getting gov’t cheese and just wants a piece of the action.

 

[Diabolical!]

The EV credit really is a bit of a “rich mans” credit (coming from someone the govt defines as “rich” which seems to be any person or family making more than $100K. My high-minded side is opposed, but my practical side is tired of everyone else getting gov’t cheese and just wants a piece of the action.

Kind of how I feel. No government intervention is always best, but if I see a hundred dollar bill on the sidewalk, I pick it up.

 

[bpost]

Its an attention grabber, nothing more. Non binding vote-o-rama.....

Sen Deb gets to claim "she's working for low income" American's while doing nothing at all. She knows damn well very few EVs qualify. So, she gets credit for an incentive no one is going to be able to use. In her mind that's a win. Make no mistake, she's not a supporter of EVs..not at all.

It’s good to know what products politicians are getting paid to support so I know which companies will succeed/fail and which stock to buy. It’s the only way to try and get some of my tax money back from all the grifters in government and their voters. What a brilliant system we have.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Do not get trapped in the adoption pace mind-trap. There were no iphones sold in 2006. Not one until June 2007, only 14 years ago. So what's the point about only a few percent of cars being EV today? I own the real estate for a bunch of convenience stores. Think THEY aren't taking it seriously? 90% of auto fueling is going to happen at peoples' homes within 20 years. That's a thing that will change the face of the oil industry - and folks who think chargers at former gas stations will be meaningful have not owned an EV. Charging away from home is only needed on road trips - so local gas stations will be obsolete. Maybe a few gas stations to gas up your leaf blower, weed whacker and lawn mower... wait, we already have electric versions of those too. Seriously, I ride motorcycles in third world countries about half the year, so get the permanence of portable fuel, but in the first world, when you have driven an EV, you WILL get it and your resistance WILL fall. It took one test drive in a Tesla Model S for my many years of gear-head prejudice ("I will NEVER drive an electric car!") to fall away. And I have given test drives to many resistant friends and relatives who now get it. I promise you - you will too - way simpler, far fewer moving parts, fast charging, and power that is simply unbelievable until you experience it - and even then, the grin never goes away. It is meaningful that the fastest and most powerful Ford F-150 by far is an EV - and it has way less moving parts, is cleaner, quieter, has more space... and is price competitive with the internal combustion models WITHOUT IMMORAL GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES!

 

[ShirBlackspots]

This could be a killer for me. As it is, the cheapest I can afford to get into an extended range Lightning would be roughly $60k without tax credits, and my wife and I bring in more than $100k per year. A lot of reservations will be canceled if this stands. https://www.greencarreports.com/new...-to-place-a-40-000-price-cap-on-ev-tax-credit

Mind you, this is non-binding, and is a message from the Republicans, who will most likely use it for attack ads during election season.

 

[greenne]

Do not get trapped in the adoption pace mind-trap. There were no iphones sold in 2006. Not one until June 2007, only 14 years ago. So what's the point about only a few percent of cars being EV today? I own the real estate for a bunch of convenience stores. Think THEY aren't taking it seriously? 90% of auto fueling is going to happen at peoples' homes within 20 years. That's a thing that will change the face of the oil industry - and folks who think chargers at former gas stations will be meaningful have not owned an EV. Charging away from home is only needed on road trips - so local gas stations will be obsolete. Maybe a few gas stations to gas up your leaf blower, weed whacker and lawn mower... wait, we already have electric versions of those too. Seriously, I ride motorcycles in third world countries about half the year, so get the permanence of portable fuel, but in the first world, when you have driven an EV, you WILL get it and your resistance WILL fall. It took one test drive in a Tesla Model S for my many years of gear-head prejudice ("I will NEVER drive an electric car!") to fall away. And I have given test drives to many resistant friends and relatives who now get it. I promise you - you will too - way simpler, far fewer moving parts, fast charging, and power that is simply unbelievable until you experience it - and even then, the grin never goes away. It is meaningful that the fastest and most powerful Ford F-150 by far is an EV - and it has way less moving parts, is cleaner, quieter, has more space... and is price competitive with the internal combustion models WITHOUT IMMORAL GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES!

So I gotta ask..which is it...

A. Subsidies were always immoral, but hey F it you'll take the money anyway. (Aka immorality really doesn't bother you all that much)

Or

B. It was moral when you took the money, but now it's not (aka. "I got mine, so F you guys")

Inquiring minds wanna know..

 

[Pilot2022]

So I gotta ask..which is it...

A. Subsidies were always immoral, but hey F it you'll take the money anyway. (Aka immorality really doesn't bother you all that much)

Or

B. It was moral when you took the money, but now it's not (aka. "I got mine, so F you guys")

Inquiring minds wanna know..

I will take the free money without judgement but this person may have option c - subsidies are immoral and I am not going to take the free money because I believe in what I say.

 

[astricklin]

I will take the free money without judgement but this person may have option c - subsidies are immoral and I am not going to take the free money because I believe in what I say.

It's not really free money, it's getting back some/all/more of what I have paid in taxes.

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