2023 ordering date Open 8/9/22 - Scheduling 9/1

[theblunden]

My favorite thing is hearing people that are buy a +80k truck needing help paying for it. I understand the credit is to help people transition to EVs but Tesla hasn't had any problems selling every single car they produce.

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[SmokingtheMeats]

My favorite thing is hearing people that are buy a +80k truck needing help paying for it. I understand the credit is to help people transition to EVs but Tesla hasn't had any problems selling every single car they produce.

I think this totally misses the point. It’s not about the “needing help pay” for me. I was going to spend it on another ICE truck. It’s if I’m spending the same money, I’m going to go EV to save the extra 7.5k.

 

[theblunden]

I think this totally misses the point. It’s not about the “needing help pay” for me. I was going to spend it on another ICE truck. It’s if I’m spending the same money, I’m going to go EV to save the extra 7.5k.

In fuel cost alone I'll save 2.5-3k per year with the Lightning in comparison to a ICE F150. I'd buy the truck without the credit I just think it's comical that people spending 80k need HELP paying or justification in spending little more.

 

[vsansal]

From what I understand of the new law, if you get into a binding agreement in 22 and get your vehicle delivered in 23 you can still claim the existing law. That means $80k cap doesn't apply. The catch is, by then it's highly likely the rebate will be $3750 or $1875 but it's better than nothing.

 

[F150ROD]

My favorite thing is hearing people that are buy a +80k truck needing help paying for it. I understand the credit is to help people transition to EVs but Tesla hasn't had any problems selling every single car they produce.

The problem is people are buying Tesla’s to flip them quickly and make a quick buck. IMO the demand isn’t as big as people think, there are plenty of used Teslas to choose from with low mileage, even on Teslas own website (at least in my area).

Used Tesla’s in California get a $4k rebate if you are with SCE and there are other perks for new Teslas, like up to $9500 to get rid of an old beater.

While the Fed Tax incentive is not there, The State has plenty of incentives that get people to move to an EV, not just Tesla

 

[Sdctcher]

Under the new (proposed) law in order to get credit the Used Vehicle must be 2 years or older.
Sorry, Flippers.

 

[EVTruckGuy]

In fuel cost alone I'll save 2.5-3k per year with the Lightning in comparison to a ICE F150. I'd buy the truck without the credit I just think it's comical that people spending 80k need HELP paying or justification in spending little more.

Well... The reason those credits were started is to recoup the cost of pricey vehicles that people would otherwise be hesitant to buy.

Your math is disingenuous. You can't claim to save money on gas without factoring in how much more electric vehicles cost than gas vehicles with similar specs.

For instance, you could buy an ICE F150 XLT crew cab 4x4 for under $60k. A Lightning XLT would cost more up front and negate any gas savings unless you keep the truck for much longer than the average person.

That's why we have the tax incentives.

We either need to stop trying to convince everyone to by EVs to decrease emissions, or we need to accept incentives are needed to keep EV prices competitive with ICE prices.

 

[theblunden]

Well... The reason those credits were started is to recoup the cost of pricey vehicles that people would otherwise be hesitant to buy.

Your math is disingenuous. You can't claim to save money on gas without factoring in how much more electric vehicles cost than gas vehicles with similar specs.

For instance, you could buy an ICE F150 XLT crew cab 4x4 for under $60k. A Lightning XLT would cost more up front and negate any gas savings unless you keep the truck for much longer than the average person.

That's why we have the tax incentives.

We either need to stop trying to convince everyone to by EVs to decrease emissions, or we need to accept incentives are needed to keep EV prices competitive with ICE prices.

The number for the fuel savings is not disingenuous it is based off of mileage I already drive in my ice F-150 and the average that people reported for efficiency and the lightnings with the current cost of my electricity and what I'm paying at the pump.

 

[jerock]

Another incentive to go to EV's would be to price gasoline it's true cost by reducing government incentives to keep it's price down.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-americans-don-t-pay-the-true-cost-of-driving

https://www.fastcompany.com/1678179/the-true-price-of-gas-what-it-should-really-cost-to-fill-up

 

[Yellow Buddy]

What does this mean for reservation holders?

Nothing good, I'm basing this on a couple of things.

1) I'm a day 1 reservation holder, wave 1. I still don't have my truck. With 7 other waves and a delay in opening the ordering bank...I'd hold my breath even if it did open.

2) It's apparent that supply chain is starting to affect even the F150L orders. There's more than one thread about options being removed.

3) Ford may have to rethink their pricing strategy with the new tax bill. Higher income (potential platinum buyers) will not be eligible for the tax credit. Those buyers may have been eligible for some form of phase out for 1 year but now would not be as early as Q1 (from my understanding) How does that affect their allocations? Their pricing strategy?

Finally, all of the above adds up. Will the truck cap effectively push buyers into a lower profit margin? How can they structure options to compel a buyer to step up? If they leave the pricing alone and a buyer qualifies, they're looking at jumping from a $13k difference between a Lariat ER and a Platinum to a $20k difference.

Ask yourself, would you pay $20k more for a Platinum? Especially if it no longer has the massaging seats. What do you get for half the price of a Pro?

All of that can't be easy to figure out. I would say sit tight, it'll be a bumpy ride.

 

[VTbuckeye]

Nothing good, I'm basing this on a couple of things.

1) I'm a day 1 reservation holder, wave 1. I still don't have my truck. With 7 other waves and a delay in opening the ordering bank...I'd hold my breath even if it did open.

2) It's apparent that supply chain is starting to affect even the F150L orders. There's more than one thread about options being removed.

3) Ford may have to rethink their pricing strategy with the new tax bill. Higher income (potential platinum buyers) will not be eligible for the tax credit. Those buyers may have been eligible for some form of phase out for 1 year but now would not be as early as Q1 (from my understanding) How does that affect their allocations? Their pricing strategy?

Finally, all of the above adds up. Will the truck cap effectively push buyers into a lower profit margin? How can they structure options to compel a buyer to step up? If they leave the pricing alone and a buyer qualifies, they're looking at jumping from a $13k difference between a Lariat ER and a Platinum to a $20k difference.

Ask yourself, would you pay $20k more for a Platinum? Especially if it no longer has the massaging seats. What do you get for half the price of a Pro?

All of that can't be easy to figure out. I would say sit tight, it'll be a bumpy ride.

This will likely lead to many items being purchased from the parts department and other items being installed after market so that they are kept off by the MSRP on the window sticker. How much would it suck if spray in bed liner or a premium color go from $500 or $600 option to effectively $8000 because the price goes over the limit.

 

[EVTruckGuy]

The number for the fuel savings is not disingenuous it is based off of mileage I already drive in my ice F-150 and the average that people reported for efficiency and the lightnings with the current cost of my electricity and what I'm paying at the pump.

It's disengenuous because you aren't really saving money... The money went toward the higher cost of the vehicle than the ICE version.

It doesn't matter how much you spend on gas... You aren't saving money if it costs more money for you to save money on gas.

If you are going to calculate cost savings with an EV, it's more accurate and honest to factor in the total cost of ownership over time... Not just the gas savings.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

It's disengenuous because you aren't really saving money... The money went toward the higher cost of the vehicle than the ICE version.

It doesn't matter how much you spend on gas... You aren't saving money if it costs more money for you to save money on gas.

If you are going to calculate cost savings with an EV, it's more accurate and honest to factor in the total cost of ownership over time... Not just the gas savings.

There’s a break even. I did this calculation when I bought my first Model S and Model X.

Over a 5 year timeframe considering total cost of ownership, a Model S was equal to a fully loaded Nissan Maxima. An X was equal to a fully loaded Ford Explorer. But it took all 5 years to break even. *For my situation. Yours may be different due to price, rates, etc.

 

[EVTruckGuy]

There’s a break even. I did this calculation when I bought my first Model S and Model X.

Over a 5 year timeframe considering total cost of ownership, a Model S was equal to a fully loaded Nissan Maxima. An X was equal to a fully loaded Ford Explorer. But it took all 5 years to break even. *For my situation. Yours may be different due to price, rates, etc.

Precisely my point. I suspect the Lightning would have a lower cost of ownership at some point, but it would take years.

Somebody who replaces their vehicle every 2 years may lose money, whereas somebody who keeps their vehicle 8 years may come out quite a bit ahead with an EV.

One thing we know for sure is that nobody driving a lightning has reached the break even point yet, whatever it is.

That's why I don't think anybody has "saved" money on gas by buying a Lightning... Yet.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

Precisely my point. I suspect the Lightning would have a lower cost of ownership at some point, but it would take years.

Somebody who replaces their vehicle every few years may lose money, whereas somebody who keeps their vehicle 7-8 years may come out quite a bit ahead with an EV.

I know, was supporting you!

The F150L hits that point very very quickly. At least for my situation, I snagged a Pro. My final OTD price including all rebates, incentives, dealer fees, taxes etc will be $30,773.

A base F150 XL, 2WD, standard cab, no options is $33,315 before any dealer fees or taxes. Add those in and a worst equipt ICE version would be $36,726, just about 20% more expensive.

That’s ignoring running costs, maintenance cost. Out the gate, it’s already cheaper. I think that’s quite an accomplishment by Ford. It isn’t until the ER battery comes into play that the tables turn, but every SR like for like is pretty much there.

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