2023 ordering date Open 8/9/22 - Scheduling 9/1

[Froman]

Ehhhh, who is buying an 80k truck that is under the new income limit? Let me just tell you, you are making a financial mistake.

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[EVTruckGuy]

Ehhhh, who is buying an 80k truck that is under the new income limit? Let me just tell you, you are making a financial mistake.

Agreed... But I'm confident a lot of people buying the Lightning are under the limit. It doesn't make financial sense, but people like nice stuff.

I don't think anybody will argue that buying an $80k truck is unwise unless you make enough money to max out your 401k or similar account, max out IRA/Roth IRA, and put away plenty of money in traditional savings or brokerage accounts and still have enough left over for the truck. I don't think most people are well enough off financially to do this though.

Some people buy nice things instead of saving or paying off existing debt.

There are some exceptions. Some people will have a legitimate business expense to justify the cost, and some people have already retired and saved enough in their working years to enjoy expensive cars now.

Financial experts typically recommend spending no more than 10-15% of monthly take home pay on a vehicle including maintenance, insurance, and other costs.

 

[sotek2345]

Agreed... But I'm confident a lot of people buying the Lightning are under the limit. It doesn't make financial sense, but people like nice stuff.

I don't think anybody will argue that buying an $80k truck is unwise unless you make enough money to max out your 401k or similar account, max out IRA/Roth IRA, and put away plenty of money in traditional savings or brokerage accounts and still have enough left over for the truck. I don't think most people are well enough off financially to do this though.

Some people buy nice things instead of saving or paying off existing debt.

There are some exceptions. Some people will have a legitimate business expense to justify the cost, and some people have already retired and saved enough in their working years to enjoy expensive cars now.

Financial experts typically recommend spending no more than 10-15% of monthly take home pay on a vehicle including maintenance, insurance, and other costs.

Ok, let's use your 15% rule for a Lariat and say that the monthly payment, with insurance is $1,500. This will vary by loan APR and term as well as insurance situation, but it should be fairly representative. At 15%, month take home would have to be $10k. Assuming you bring home 75% of your pay, that would be $160k per year gross income.

Lots of room between $160k and the $300k cutoff for families.

 

[TaxmanHog]

8/10, looking forward to who get invited to MY2023 Wave-1

 

[Jaspernuts]

I'm a June reservation. But the only one at a small dealer and they did get allocation last year. Hoping to get in the first few waves for an xkt!

 

[EVTruckGuy]

Ok, let's use your 15% rule for a Lariat and say that the monthly payment, with insurance is $1,500. This will vary by loan APR and term as well as insurance situation, but it should be fairly representative. At 15%, month take home would have to be $10k. Assuming you bring home 75% of your pay, that would be $160k per year gross income.

Lots of room between $160k and the $300k cutoff for families.

Yeah, that's true overall. I definitely think most people making $160k per year can afford an $80k vehicle if they don't have too many other financial obligations.

I think your numbers just illustrated the problem. If you consider the limit for single people for the tax rebate, you would have to pretty much be at the max income allowed in order to not be over leveraged when buying the $80k truck per traditional recommendations.

Anybody making les than the maximum allowed by the new proposed law would in general not be able to afford the truck using the 15% rule.

It's worth remembering too that anybody making more than about $165k individually or $330k as a married couple with pay at least 32% in federal taxes.

Then, they still have to pay state taxes depending on location as well as FICA taxes.

In other words... I would be thrilled to be able to take home 75% of my gross pay. I'm sure some self employed people and business owners can make it happen, but as an employee there aren't enough deductions to make that possible in my case.

I'm not complaining though. I consider myself lucky to have a good job that allows me to purchase a truck this nice.

Everybody gets to make their own decisions about how much they want to spend on a truck, and I ma none to judge. I've made plenty of dumb purchases in the past.

 

[VTbuckeye]

Yeah, that's true overall. I definitely think most people making $160k per year can afford an $80k vehicle if they don't have too many other financial obligations.

I think your numbers just illustrated the problem. If you consider the limit for single people for the tax rebate, you would have to pretty much be at the max income allowed in order to not be over leveraged when buying the $80k truck per traditional recommendations.

Anybody making les than the maximum allowed by the new proposed law would in general not be able to afford the truck using the 15% rule.

It's worth remembering too that anybody making more than about $165k individually or $330k as a married couple with pay at least 32% in federal taxes.

Then, they still have to pay state taxes depending on location as well as FICA taxes.

In other words... I would be thrilled to be able to take home 75% of my gross pay. I'm sure some self employed people and business owners can make it happen, but as an employee there aren't enough deductions to make that possible in my case.

I'm not complaining though. I consider myself lucky to have a good job that allows me to purchase a truck this nice.

Everybody gets to make their own decisions about how much they want to spend on a truck, and I ma none to judge. I've made plenty of dumb purchases in the past.

Married with a combined just under the Roth IRA contribution limit (19X per year combined. I'd love to take home 75 percent. Our take-home is about 55 percent. 22 percent tax bracket fed, just barely 7.8 state, I max the fica contributions in late October to early November, she works part-time with two children and we put 10k per year into their 529 account. We max roth contributions for each of us, I max my Roth 403b. Our car payments are definitely over 15 percent, but our house payment is only 22 percent of takehome, so we have nicer cars. Probably not the best financial move, but we are doing lots of other things right). I agree that to spend 80k on a car takes a high income and still may not be the best financial decision. We will have a 30k trade in to go with the 80k new car, which helps. If I could not max contribute to the retirement accounts we would not get the truck, but we are committed to plug in vehicles.

 

[lancersrock]

Hey I know I shouldn't buy an $80k truck on $100k annual but our house is $1000 a month and only ten years left. An EV would save me $350-400 a month vs the $600 I spend on gas. A model y would probably be best for my commute (Mme driver positioning didn't work for me) but the price increases made me realize I'd rather have the lightning, I think the MY is overpriced for the quality.

Honestly I would be happiest if Ford offered a pro ER with max tow for $55k. With my daily drive being 150 round trip with no destination charger the Midwest winters on a sr battery will most likely be a problem.

I guess at the end of the day you only live once.

 

[rdr854]

I agree the high Lariat is a very competitive price per feature compared to both ICE and lower XLT-BEV trims. The Bev XLT high package was an awful value which might work in 23 only because Lariats get pushed out of the Rebate next year.

Interestingly , ICE F150 reduced packages for 2023 moving to a streamlined offering. Ford may really be trying to gain cost efficiency through package reduction/simplification. I think there is a perception that is part of how Tesla does things efficiently and Ford is doing what they can to copy parts of the Tesla process where they see benefit.

BEV XLT however is badly in need of some value in it's packages. Lariat holds up much better from a value proposition but hopefully Ford throws a bone to the XLT trim which compares terribly to both PRO and Lariat. Otherwise PRO is going to sell out just as fast as last MY.

Streamlining of packages is nothing new for Ford. Ford did that starting in MY 2019 with the Ford Fusion and Ford Fusion Hybrid. My 2019 FFH Titanium had two options available - paint color and a block heater. The other trims were similarly simplified as well - all in the name of cost cutting.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

8/10, looking forward to who get invited to MY2023 Wave-1

Let’s hope it’s the people who deferred their MY 2022 invites, then simply by reservation time stamp and -if absolutely necessary- dealer prioritization. Let’s also hope Ford skips the ZEV state preference nonsense this time around! Fingers crossed.

 

[greenne]

8/10, looking forward to who get invited to MY2023 Wave-1

Do we have any confirmation or info on the MY2023 "waves" yet? Do we know how any of it will work?

 

[TaxmanHog]

Nothing other than what @KevinC said in post 1.
Being positive that it will happen at some point, how or when Ford does it, is their call.

 

[RavenYZF-R6]

Streamlining of packages is nothing new for Ford. Ford did that starting in MY 2019 with the Ford Fusion and Ford Fusion Hybrid. My 2019 FFH Titanium had two options available - paint color and a block heater. The other trims were similarly simplified as well - all in the name of cost cutting.

How dare you imply all vehicle manufacturers are not trying to be Tesla!! Ford definitely has zero history of streamlining the manufacturing process…. /s

 

[jb56]

There is so much "rationality" in this thread about everything, but I don't believe Ford is really a rational actor at this point, unless "rational" means just doing whatever makes the most money. Ford has made way more net income/profit over the last two years off of significantly less total revenue and sales. As long as Ford is going to sell every unit it produces, it's not really going to behave rationally.

If they screw over early reservation holders like me, that will piss me off and I may drift further away from Ford. But right now, Ford doesn't care. Ford is making crazy money right now and it doesn't really have to treat its customers well. It just has to have a desirable product.

Same things go for tax incentives. If Ford makes pricing decisions that screw over customers on their tax rebates, Ford probably won't care as long as its selling out.

I do think this is all a bit short sighted though. I think screwing over reservation holders, screwing over people hoping for tax credits, and prioritizing ZEV states so heavily will harm Ford in the long run.

 

[cdubculvy]

Does anyone know if people over the income limit will get a partial credit or is it all or none?

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