2023 Lightning Build and Price is Live .... $5000+ increase in price

[greenne]

This could actually be evidence that they don't WANT to sell extended range Lightnings. Hard to know with any level of certainty, but maybe battery supply has led them to try to shift more purchases to standard range.

Ford knows exactly what they are doing...

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[Yellow Buddy]

Does anyone know how the demo units at dealers now will classify for the old tax credit or new bill when people purchase them before the end of the year? After the mandatory waiting period.

The demo units are eligible for sale in Q4. They'll be under the transition rule. If delivered by end of 2022, they qualify under the old rule. If delivered after 2022, you need a buyers agreement this week to be grandfathered.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

This could actually be evidence that they don't WANT to sell extended range Lightnings. Hard to know with any level of certainty, but maybe battery supply has led them to try to shift more purchases to standard range.

I agree with this. They use nearly 40% more batteries on the ER. Do they make 40% more profit? If not, would those batteries be better served for Ford to be used in a separate SR order?

 

[greenne]

This isn't going to be popular...but....

Maybe a smart move is to just suck it up and try to get a 2022 (customer abandoned order) for $5-10k ADM.

Counterpoint....dealers are probably going to jack the prices up even more knowing that waiting until 2023 isn't as appealing of an option anymore without the tax credit + price increase...

 

[Yellow Buddy]

while the new tax bill seems confusing, I don't think anyone who buys or takes delivery of an EV prior to the end of the year should have any changes from today's current tax credit rules. the new bill should take effect Jan 1, and not affect anyone prior to that, at least in a negative way.

It takes effect immediately at signing, but there's a transition period to Jan 1.

 

[SmokingtheMeats]

Hopefully I do not get moved to a 23. I could not do that. I would be out.

 

[oswaldal]

The demo units are eligible for sale in Q4. They'll be under the transition rule. If delivered by end of 2022, they qualify under the old rule. If delivered after 2022, you need a buyers agreement this week to be grandfathered.

What language in the bill are you using for this determination? I have been trying to determine this grey area also. I read it as you need the binding buyers agreement signed prior to the bill becoming law to be grandfathered, regardless of sales/delivery date.

 

[shutterbug]

The demo units are eligible for sale in Q4. They'll be under the transition rule. If delivered by end of 2022, they qualify under the old rule. If delivered after 2022, you need a buyers agreement this week to be grandfathered.

If the demo unit was registered by the dealer, it isn't eligible for any credit.

 

[F150ROD]

And Vroom wanted to give me $78k for mine

Ford is not going to do any good will like Rivian. They still sell plenty of ICE Trucks and the Lightning is not their bread/butter. If anything you are going to see a lot of abandoned orders or maybe incentives in the future.

 

[shutterbug]

Chargers are a dime a dozen online - paying $500 for Ford's is just another option. I just bought a 30amp adjustable EVSE for only 1/2 that.

The mobile charger isn't a huge loss. But personally, I wish they removed the pro charger as well.

 

[KevinC]

Hoping beyond hope for some PCO.

 

[vandy1981]

Yeah, no chance the unwashed masses of folks who just have a reservation are getting any sort of price protection. Probably ALL 2023 sales will be reservations, so there would be no reason to even change the prices if that was their intent.

From today's Ford press release (https://media.ford.com/content/ford...f-150-lightning-standard-range-increased.html):

Lightning reservation holders who previously received an invitation to order, but who elected to extend their reservation because their vehicle specification was unavailable, will receive a private offer for use in upcoming waves.

“Current order holders awaiting delivery are not impacted by these price adjustments,” Marin Gjaja, chief customer officer, Model e, said. “We’ve announced pricing ahead of re-opening order banks so our reservation holders can make an informed decision around ordering a Lightning.”

 

[Yellow Buddy]

If the demo unit was registered by the dealer, it isn't eligible for any credit.

If it's registered by the dealer then it is a used vehicle, it will be eligible for the $4,000 used credit after the bill goes into effect.

What language in the bill are you using for this determination? I have been trying to determine this grey area also. I read it as you need the binding buyers agreement signed prior to the bill becoming law to be grandfathered, regardless of sales/delivery date.

Under the effective date. Page 401.
(1) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in paragraphs (2), (3), (4), and (5), the amendments made 23 by this section shall apply to vehicles placed in serv- 24 ice after December 31, 2022. 25

755 Page Bill

 

[greenne]

I know the supply chain, etc. But I was hoping ford would stick with the pricing for the reservations.

There is no doubt that Ford is mirroring Tesla in many ways. Tesla keeps jacking up prices to keep their margins, and the public just continues to keep paying for their entire supply.

Personally, I don't like this move. Ford kept the prices "reasonable" for the first round to keep marketing and PR points, but now feels like they have enough goodwill. Rivian tried the same thing and immediately backed down when the reservations balked at the price increase. Rivian decided keeping the goodwill with its customers was worth more long term.

The question is not whether Ford can get away with it and still sell every truck they build. The question is whether they should on a new product that is still being tweaked and improved.

In my opinion Ford kept the price down because that is what the market could support at that time and also Ford underestimated demand. Its been well documented that Ford thought(their analysts thought) they could sell 10,000 Lightings per year. Then it was 40,000. Then 80,000, etc. Their pricing structure was based on those early predictions, as well as the market(competitors prices, cost of goods, etc).

No one expected 200k reservations and demand off the charts. No one at Ford anyways. Ford is a business, they aren't a charity and despite the PR they are not in the goodwill business. They sell a product for people to buy. Its a delicate dance.

I will push back on the comparison with Tesla. There are big differences between Tesla and Ford. Number 1 Tesla doesn't have a competitive truck(yet..if ever) so its hard to compare apples to apples.

However in a *normal* non crazy market the dealer model does have a bit more leverage vs the Tesla "take it or leave it" direct sales approach. If/when there are normal supplies again and or dealers can get their hands on a Lighting to sell each dealer will have to compete for customers again. This may not happen post pandemic or take a long time for production to catch up. But the business model is based upon dealer competing with dealer. Tesla direct sales makes price increases easier and almost a sure thing. Only Elon controls price and there is no competition at play. Take it or leave it.

The issue I have with Tesla is the "on the whim" price issues. With the Tesla system you could have agreed to a price and some day between the time you decide to purchase and delivery the price would go up. As a customer you have to pretty much take it.

At least Ford tries to keep price increases to model years so if you order a 2022 you'll get a 2022 hopefully at the price you agreed to at order. At least that's the way it's supposed to work...

 

[SmokingtheMeats]

If it's registered by the dealer then it is a used vehicle, it will be eligible for the $4,000 used credit after the bill goes into effect.



Under the effective date. Page 401.
(1) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in paragraphs (2), (3), (4), and (5), the amendments made 23 by this section shall apply to vehicles placed in serv- 24 ice after December 31, 2022. 25

755 Page Bill

didn't the used car have to be 2 years old?

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