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[Rando]

Man I’m glad I grew up poor. Reading your stories about how people act over luxury goods, watches, and sneakers and crap really makes me scratch my head.

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[cvalue13]

Man I’m glad I grew up poor. Reading your stories about how people act over luxury goods, watches, and sneakers and crap really makes me scratch my head.

it’s a wild world out there.

Though the same psychological effects are seen on all portions of the spectrum: e.g., all data shows that the people most opposed to raising the minimum wage are those making just above the current minimum wage.

 

[ivan256]

could be, but I still think Ford’s playing the part, even if they’re not a good actor

you may not really know the Nike drop environment. While Nike has absolutely “sold” pairs [...]

That's exactly the point. Nike has a lottery. Win or you don't get a pair. The people who keep coming back know they're probably not getting a pair, just a chance. Tell them they're definitely getting a pair, take some money from them, and then tell them you lied later - see what happens then!

Hermès picks influencers. If you're not one, no bag. Nobody expects to get one, so nobody is disappointed.

Rolex.... well.. Rolex isn't really exclusive. Your local mall might not have one today due to temporary supply chain issues, but the fact of the matter is if you have cash and are near a city or resort town you can go buy one - new or used - for somewhere around list price today.

Ford took "reservations" from random people. Hundreds of thousands of us. But they're falling back to selling them off the lot to the person who shows up with the most cash. Given the evidence I just don't buy the "managed access / managed frustration" angle. What I think is actually happening is that Ford doesn't consider us the customers at all. They're managing access for their dealers. We are an afterthought.

 

[cvalue13]

That's exactly the point. Nike has a lottery. Win or you don't get a pair. The people who keep coming back know they're probably not getting a pair, just a chance. Tell them they're definitely getting a pair, take some money from them, and then tell them you lied later - see what happens then!

Hermès picks influencers. If you're not one, no bag. Nobody expects to get one, so nobody is disappointed.

Rolex.... well.. Rolex isn't really exclusive. Your local mall might not have one today due to temporary supply chain issues, but the fact of the matter is if you have cash and are near a city or resort town you can go buy one - new or used - for somewhere around list price today.

Ford took "reservations" from random people. Hundreds of thousands of us. But they're falling back to selling them off the lot to the person who shows up with the most cash. Given the evidence I just don't buy the "managed access / managed frustration" angle. What I think is actually happening is that Ford doesn't consider us the customers at all. They're managing access for their dealers. We are an afterthought.

Hate to beat a dead horse so extensively, but your characterization of Nike, James, and Rolex, above are all in accurate.

Not that anyone cares anymore, but to correct some of those in accuracies:

Nike sometimes has lotteries, sometimes has a first-come-fastest-to-click-buy model. What Nike always has are hordes of scalpers using BOTS to make tens of thousands of entries into the lotteries or faster-than-human entries into the first-come releases. Suffices to say for brevity here, that Nike could but doesn’t do more to combat these scalpers because they are the ones making a secondary market premiums possible, and are an integral part of the “maintaining frustration” in the general population. Take just a 20 minute spin through Nike SNKRS app discussions on Twitter and fully 2/3 of the discussion are people explaining how terrible Nike is, how terrible the SNKRS app is, how Thry can’t believe Nike won’t do more to make releases more fair, how the raffles are rigged B.S., etc., etc. In other words, Nike Twitter completely corrects your misconception that Nike’s “raffle” is somehow actually egalitarian rather than itself the cover-story for intentionally creating exclusivity. Afterall, you’re ignoring the base fact that Nike only makes a few thousand of the most desirable shoes, and confusing which is the horse and which is the carriage.

For different but similarly complete reasons, your understanding of the Hermès situation and Rolex market are also not fully informed.

But suffices to say for Hermès: your point is undercut alone by the fact that Birkin bags trade on the secondary market for sometimes >10X of MSRP (which is precisely the point of the marketing: those who can’t get it directly from the manufacturer, are willing to spend almost anything to appear as if they were among those exclusives.)

And as for Rolex, which is really more in my wheelhouse of expertise - here you’re most off. Rolex SS sports watches were trading at multiples in the secondary market lingbefore 2020 and resulting supply chain issues, and their broad (apparent) “scarcity” has nothing to do with reality - Rolex is selling more SS sports watches than ever, it’s just that you can’t buy one. You’re absolutely incorrect that anyone, especially anyone in a city, can simply walk into a Rolex boutique and purchase a SS sports watch - salespersons will sometimes in fact chuckle out loud at your request, then show you a hollow watch, and ask if you want to be put on a 1-9 year waiting list.

But don’t worry, on the secondary market you can find SS Rolex watches for multiples of MSRP.

Which, by the way, is a hallmark of successful intended marketing by scarify shared with all such goods, including the Lightning.

Because, circling back to the first post on this, the point for the manufacturer is generating sufficient excess demand that it ensures immediate sales of units at MSRP. Achieving that assurance requires the broader (secondary) market to value the product higher than MSRP, and the higher than MSRP the better. If there are sufficient people willing to pay $25,000 for a basic Rolex GMT II Pepsi on the secondary market, it means that that watch’s MSRP of $13,000 absolutely ensures immediate sale of the unit.

Anyways, I’m at this point silly for saying anymore on the topic. It’s been covered, and I’m here describing how these brands’ strategy requires convincing people it’s not a mirage, but expecting others to not see the mirage.

So, good on Ford: the split of opinions in this Forum, the basic “arguments,” the stances of the fan boys vs detractors, all looks just like those found in the Rolex collector forums.

Believe that to be a coincidence if you wish!

 

[greenne]

Ford took "reservations" from random people. Hundreds of thousands of us. But they're falling back to selling them off the lot to the person who shows up with the most cash. Given the evidence I just don't buy the "managed access / managed frustration" angle. What I think is actually happening is that Ford doesn't consider us the customers at all. They're managing access for their dealers. We are an afterthought.

Uhhh.. no Ford is Not.

The dealership model literally prohibits this.

Ford sells the truck to a dealer for set price, who sells it to you for another price. Two different transactions. The price you pay the dealer has no effect on the price the dealer paid for the truck..and vice versa.

This is nothing new..it has been the dealership model for decades(like it or hate it).

Ford has facilitated the matching process and the supply but has stayed out of the pricing part other than "suggest" prices. If a dealer wanted to sell a truck for $20k UNDER MSRP they are free to do that..if a dealer wants to try to sell at $20k over MSRP they can do that. They only Ford can do about it is impact price indirectly somewhat by influence over future allocation or in serious cases pull a franchise(dealer) agreement..

 

[ivan256]

So, good on Ford: the split of opinions in this Forum, the basic “arguments,” the stances of the fan boys vs detractors, all looks just like those found in the Rolex collector forums.

Believe that to be a coincidence if you wish!

At the end of the day Ford is making a mass-market item. At some point they're going to offer to sell everybody one and people are going to turn them down because they're priced high and not possible to sell for a profit.

Zero people will ever profit off a Lightning to anywhere near the extent that they are off a limited edition sneaker or a Birkin bag.

Spin it however you want. It's a silly premise. Reservations were a hedge for the investment, not managed frustration to build demand.

Nike Twitter completely corrects your misconception that Nike’s “raffle” is somehow actually egalitarian rather than itself the cover-story for intentionally creating exclusivity.

If that's what you took from what I'm saying, I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I completely agree that Nike is intentionally creating exclusivity. And they're doing it in a way that drives customer loyalty and demand.

What I disagree with is that Ford is successfully copying their strategy. Or even attempting to. In fact they appear to be attempting to shed the entire reservation / limited access thing and get back to the regular dealership model as quickly as possible.

 

[greenne]

At the end of the day Ford is making a mass-market item. At some point they're going to offer to sell me us one and people are going to turn them down because they're priced high and not possible to sell for a profit.

Zero people will ever profit off a Lightning to anywhere near the extent that they are off a limited edition sneaker or a Birkin bag.

Spin it however you want. It's a silly premise. Reservations were a hedge for the investment, not managed frustration to build demand.



If that's what you took from what I'm saying, I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I completely agree that Nike is intentionally creating exclusivity. And they're doing it in a way that drives customer loyalty and demand.

What I disagree with is that Ford is successfully copying their strategy. Or even attempting to. In fact they appear to be attempting to shed the entire reservation / limited access thing and get back to the regular dealership model as quickly as possible.

Agree 100%...

*IF* Ford were to desire to run up the price on these they would not talk about how they are ramping up production next year, etc. (That would be counteractive)

*IF* Ford were desiring exclusivity they would sell a "first edition" model at a premium....most automakers are doing that to varying degrees.

Ford has made it point to to communicate that this is a truck for the common man, mass consumption and has gone out of their way to keep it cheap as possible-- using common parts, based on ICE f150, scalability, etc.

The premise that Ford is artificially driving up prices is ridiculous, IMO.

 

[hturnerfamily]

I'm trying to figure out if this is a joke?!?

Aside from being sexist, it's also completely not true. According to an automotive research firm:

"Owners of the Model 3 are overwhelmingly male. Women only own 16% of Model 3s and men own 84%. That makes the Model 3 the most “male” of the Tesla models. Males own 77% of Model S vehicles and women own 23%."

The EV portion of this is more important to me than the Truck portion. If the Lightning didn't exist I would be looking for a different EV at this point before considering another ICE truck.

the point is, up until now, there has been NO Ev TRUCK for any man to buy, but if you look at the OVERWHELMING 200,000+ reservations for the Ford LIGHTNING, I'll bet my assumption is darn true. Females can certainly purchase whatever they like, too, but making a comment on one side of the gender versus the other was not the point. MEN want a truck, period. They may drive something else IF they have NO other option.....Ford certainly realizes WHO their target customer is.

 

[RickE]

As someone that had waited a long time, and will need to still wait a little longer for my Pro, it's easy to harp on Ford.

I think "cluster^&%# of historic proportions" is a pretty egregious overstatement. That sentiment should be reserved for the Cybertruck (for example).

Ford did under estimate demand because their current customers of ICE Ford F-150 didn't give them the appropriate demand because Ford didn't understand their target audience (as noted by the amount of people who reserved that have never owned a Ford or a Truck).

That being said, Ford has been behind from day one because they didn't poll the public (just current F-150 owners, a large majority don't care about EV). Since then, they've ramped up production, increased proposed output, and still are battling supply shortages like the rest of the industry.

I'm starting to think that the idea of Ford should "just tell us dates and info" is probably unfair because alot of it is out of Ford's control.

They have definitely done some things wrong...but alot hasn't been completely in their control.

I disagree, Ford is a multi-billion dollar corporation that has been around for over 100 years. It does not take a lot of research to figure out that if you take the top selling vehicle over the last 40 plus years and make it electric the demand would be extremely high. Just look at the demand for the, ugly and never produced, Cyber truck.

Ford has prioritized their dealers over their customers. They made sure that their "preferred dealers" got the most allocations. So customers that reserved minutes after it was opened are still waiting because they simply chose the wrong dealer. On the other hand, people that reserved a month later and chose the right dealer got a invitation.

But my major disappointed with Ford and my dealer has to do with the total lack of communication from them. I have not received any type of communications from Ford or my dealer since March regarding my Lightning reservation. The email that I did get from Ford in March was sent in error because it was to get ready for my new Lightning that i have not ordered. All the information I have about the 2023 Lightning I have received it from this Forum. Ford has NOT sent out an official communications to the reservation holder regarding the 23MY. They have not sent out the information that the 23MY build and price website is live. They have not sent out anything saying that the order banks for the 23MY would open in August. You would think that as a reservation holder you would at least get an email from Ford informing you of these two items.

I can also assure you that Ford, right now, knows exactly which reservation holders they are going to invite on wave #3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 etc. They can send out that information right now, and give all reservation holders a good idea as to when they will be able to order, but the chose not to. They want you to keep thinking that you will be invited on the next wave then the next one after that and so on. They do not want to tell you that you will have to wait another year before getting the invite because you might cancel your reservation and buy a competitors truck.

 

[cclark20]

What seems to be obvious from all the conversations on this Forum is:

1) Those that were able to order a Lightning by, paying over sticker, being the dealers buddy or being selected by chance are for the most part ok with the process and defend Ford.

2) Those that reserved early and still have not been selected to order feel the process is rigged in favor of the those above and they will continue to criticize Ford.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

the point is, up until now, there has been NO Ev TRUCK for any man to buy, but if you look at the OVERWHELMING 200,000+ reservations for the Ford LIGHTNING, I'll bet my assumption is darn true. Females can certainly purchase whatever they like, too, but making a comment on one side of the gender versus the other was not the point. MEN want a truck, period. They may drive something else IF they have NO other option.....Ford certainly realizes WHO their target customer is.

Yes, there has been no EV Truck to buy. Thats obvious and no arguement there.

Not sure why you need to keep stating that its for a man over and over though.

Your assumption that all men want big trucks and that's all men care about is just a sexist stereotype, and untrue. Maybe this is a generational thing that I can't understand.

If I wasn't able to order the Lightning, I would be buying a different EV, not a different truck. Does that make me less of a man? Wow.

We obviously come from very different backgrounds and thought processes. I'm not going to call you names or attack you, just wanted to point out that being a "man" doesn't mean I (or others you are grouping into your stereotype) need/want a truck.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

I disagree, Ford is a multi-billion dollar corporation that has been around for over 100 years. It does not take a lot of research to figure out that if you take the top selling vehicle over the last 40 plus years and make it electric the demand would be extremely high. Just look at the demand for the, ugly and never produced, Cyber truck.

Ford has prioritized their dealers over their customers. They made sure that their "preferred dealers" got the most allocations. So customers that reserved minutes after it was opened are still waiting because they simply chose the wrong dealer. On the other hand, people that reserved a month later and chose the right dealer got a invitation.

But my major disappointed with Ford and my dealer has to do with the total lack of communication from them. I have not received any type of communications from Ford or my dealer since March regarding my Lightning reservation. The email that I did get from Ford in March was sent in error because it was to get ready for my new Lightning that i have not ordered. All the information I have about the 2023 Lightning I have received it from this Forum. Ford has NOT sent out an official communications to the reservation holder regarding the 23MY. They have not sent out the information that the 23MY build and price website is live. They have not sent out anything saying that the order banks for the 23MY would open in August. You would think that as a reservation holder you would at least get an email from Ford informing you of these two items.

I can also assure you that Ford, right now, knows exactly which reservation holders they are going to invite on wave #3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 etc. They can send out that information right now, and give all reservation holders a good idea as to when they will be able to order, but the chose not to. They want you to keep thinking that you will be invited on the next wave then the next one after that and so on. They do not want to tell you that you will have to wait another year before getting the invite because you might cancel your reservation and buy a competitors truck.

Good points, Ford's communication has been frustrating.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

What seems to be obvious from all the conversations on this Forum is:

1) Those that were able to order a Lightning by, paying over sticker, being the dealers buddy or being selected by chance are for the most part ok with the process and defend Ford.

2) Those that reserved early and still have not been selected to order feel the process is rigged in favor of the those above and they will continue to criticize Ford.

For what it's worth...

I reserved on 5/19, had never stepped foot into my dealer before my reservation, and got completely lucky to get a MY23 Pro. No special treatment here.

Ford's communication has been bad.

 

[monsterlag]

the point is, up until now, there has been NO Ev TRUCK for any man to buy, but if you look at the OVERWHELMING 200,000+ reservations for the Ford LIGHTNING, I'll bet my assumption is darn true. Females can certainly purchase whatever they like, too, but making a comment on one side of the gender versus the other was not the point. MEN want a truck, period. They may drive something else IF they have NO other option.....Ford certainly realizes WHO their target customer is.

I can’t tell if this is a meme or not but if not you need to go back on your meds.

 

[monsterlag]

What seems to be obvious from all the conversations on this Forum is:

1) Those that were able to order a Lightning by, paying over sticker, being the dealers buddy or being selected by chance are for the most part ok with the process and defend Ford.

2) Those that reserved early and still have not been selected to order feel the process is rigged in favor of the those above and they will continue to criticize Ford.

I mean there are some of us who reserved early and did take delivery. I never talked to my dealer other than to add the Tow package and a day or 2 before delivery.

Ford’s system isn’t great and I doubt it will ever be till they move away from the dealership model. Having said that, the system exists solely due to the dealership model.

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