Portable EVSE Amps over 110v/120v

[DiveMan911]

No. Nothing about the circuit feeding the EVSE (breaker, wire size, receptacle, plug, etc) can limit the charge current. I don’t know if the Lightning limits 120V charging to 12A or not. It’s possible.
You didn’t mention make/model of your EVSE, so I can’t speculate on your last question.

I figured as much about the circuit, appreciate the confirmation. Per code, can a 16amp device/load utilize a 5-15 plug?

Curious if anyone else knows if the Lightning has a current limit at 120v?

Here’s the EVSE I bought: https://a.co/d/hX69FoF

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[FlasherZ]

I figured as much about the circuit, appreciate the confirmation. Per code, can a 16amp device/load utilize a 5-15 plug?

Code doesn't specify NEMA receptacle types but says it must be listed & rated for the load served.

16A continuous x the 1.25 continuous load multipler = 20A, so 5-15 wouldn't be rated for the load served.

Curious if anyone else knows if the Lightning has a current limit at 120v?

If I get a chance tonight, I'll wire up a test harness and see what the truck thinks when I give it 120V with a 30A signal on J1772.

 

[Maquis]

I figured as much about the circuit, appreciate the confirmation. Per code, can a 16amp device/load utilize a 5-15 plug?

Curious if anyone else knows if the Lightning has a current limit at 120v?

Here’s the EVSE I bought: https://a.co/d/hX69FoF

The NEC generally doesn’t control what gets plugged in, only the premesis wiring. This EVSE isn’t UL listed and it’s likely they can’t get it allowing 16A on a 15A plug.

But I see where the seller claims that it will even allow a 24A charge at 120V, which could be desirable using a 30A RV receptacle, but I can’t see anyone doing that since 240V should be available at an RV park.

All signs are pointing to the likelihood that the truck software limits L1 charging to 12A, but I have no way to verify. Maybe someone with the right equipment can look for a 120V charge parameter in the software.

ETA: Flasher beat me to it, but essentially the same answer.

 

[jefro]

There should have been a 20A plug on it.

Tesla's have or had a 16A charger. The charge rate is advertised by a dwell signal and the evse will say to truck that it can deliver 16A. Not sure if truck will read it at all to allow the very very slight improvement. I agree that 8 is half 16 but at 120VAC it will take forever.

 

[mstuewe]

FWIW, while waiting for my FCSP, I decided to conduct a home garage charge test last weekend using Ford’s portable EVSE.

Data readings were taken from the FordPass app, so, while not completely scientific, I feel this test provides no surprises and a reasonable expectation of home 120V charging based on these parameters:

Lariat ER @ 76% SoC, 20A@120V Garage outlet - direct plug-in; truck off with doors closed

76%-90% in 24 hrs - 26 kWh added

Charge Rate: 1.083 kW/hr (26/24)​

​

76%-100% in 38 hr, 37 min (38.633 hrs) - 41 kWh added

Charge Rate: 1.061 kW/hr (41/38.633)​

​

The math says this isn’t sustainable without a more effective home charge solution….even a FCSP de-rated until @Ford Motor Company can fix and deliver the EVSE they promised…..

cc: @LightningMcQueenAlbany , @PV2EV

the problem with this is the amount of waste. I put my ford EVSE on a Killawatt and it was pulling 1300 watts. Thats 17% wasted.

 

[FlasherZ]

Here is your definitive answer: the truck will pull a maximum of 11 amps when connected to a 120V supply, no matter how much the EVSE advertises.

Note below the J1772 duty cycle is 65.5 pct (actually 65.6, but the car OBD output can only offer half-percent increments). That corresponds to 40A, which is the rating of the portable EVSE I'm using. I wired the 120V hot to a 14-50's A terminal and neutral to the 14-50's B terminal. You see the truck is only drawing 11 amps, single charger.

If I plug the same EVSE into a real 14-50 receptacle, the truck draws 40A.

So yes, it suffers from the same early code problem Tesla did, where it doesn't believe the EVSE if there is only 120V present.

 

[Maquis]

Here is your definitive answer: the truck will pull a maximum of 11 amps when connected to a 120V supply, no matter how much the EVSE advertises.

Note below the J1772 duty cycle is 65.5 pct (actually 65.6, but the car OBD output can only offer half-percent increments). That corresponds to 40A, which is the rating of the portable EVSE I'm using. I wired the 120V hot to a 14-50's A terminal and neutral to the 14-50's B terminal. You see the truck is only drawing 11 amps, single charger.

If I plug the same EVSE into a real 14-50 receptacle, the truck draws 40A.

So yes, it suffers from the same early code problem Tesla did, where it doesn't believe the EVSE if there is only 120V present.

A bit disappointing, but not unexpected.

 

[FlasherZ]

Let me clarify a bit... this is what happens if you advertise 30A or 40A to the truck. I don't have the right gear to easily advertise 24A or 16A to the truck, because my original Tesla gear was lost in an accident. It may allow higher current if you advertise 16A or 24A, but at 30A and higher, it stops at 11A.

Here is the FMC doing same thing BTW (note 49 pct duty cycle, 49 x 0.6A = 29.4A):

 

[Maquis]

Let me clarify a bit... this is what happens if you advertise 30A or 40A to the truck. I don't have the right gear to easily advertise 24A or 16A to the truck, because my original Tesla gear was lost in an accident. It may allow higher current if you advertise 16A or 24A, but at 30A and higher, it stops at 11A.

Here is the FMC doing same thing BTW (note 49 pct duty cycle, 49 x 0.6A = 29.4A):

Based on your findings, plus what @DiveMan911 experienced, it’s likely limited to 11A in all cases.

 

[DiveMan911]

Here is your definitive answer: the truck will pull a maximum of 11 amps when connected to a 120V supply, no matter how much the EVSE advertises.

Note below the J1772 duty cycle is 65.5 pct (actually 65.6, but the car OBD output can only offer half-percent increments). That corresponds to 40A, which is the rating of the portable EVSE I'm using. I wired the 120V hot to a 14-50's A terminal and neutral to the 14-50's B terminal. You see the truck is only drawing 11 amps, single charger.

If I plug the same EVSE into a real 14-50 receptacle, the truck draws 40A.

So yes, it suffers from the same early code problem Tesla did, where it doesn't believe the EVSE if there is only 120V present.

Appreciate the follow through! Sure seems like that’s the case. Not the end of the world…I have my Ford charger scheduled to be installed next week at home…just capitalizing on some at work energy.

 

[FlasherZ]

Based on your findings, plus what @DiveMan911 experienced, it’s likely limited to 11A in all cases.

I think they're being quite literal with the J1772 spec on current. 120V isn't included in level 2, and the specification notes maximum 120V charging (level 1) at 12A or 16A, and looks like Ford just decided 11 was ok for everyone. Some manufacturers (including Tesla, in my experience) extended their support to pay attention to level 2 signals even when on 120V, but Ford has not.

 

[Firestop]

I think they're being quite literal with the J1772 spec on current. 120V isn't included in level 2, and the specification notes maximum 120V charging (level 1) at 12A or 16A, and looks like Ford just decided 11 was ok for everyone. Some manufacturers (including Tesla, in my experience) extended their support to pay attention to level 2 signals even when on 120V, but Ford has not.

Yes @FlasherZ , thank you for your follow up! @tommolog , can you address this in your next Lightning charge-related video?

Well, this is great to know and sucks…. @Ford Motor Company , I hope you’re listening …. hopefully a little flexibility can be added to 120V charging in a future OTA update. Also, this 11A limitation when charging at 120V should be noted in your documentation so us owners don’t have to go spelunking……..

 

[rolker]

Let me clarify a bit... this is what happens if you advertise 30A or 40A to the truck. I don't have the right gear to easily advertise 24A or 16A to the truck, because my original Tesla gear was lost in an accident. It may allow higher current if you advertise 16A or 24A, but at 30A and higher, it stops at 11A.

Here is the FMC doing same thing BTW (note 49 pct duty cycle, 49 x 0.6A = 29.4A):

Thanks for this info. I can confirm that the truck didn't ask for more than 11 amps from my OpenEVSE set to advertise 24 amps when plugged into a 120V 30A circuit.

This should be updatable via software if Ford decided so right?

 

[FlasherZ]

Thanks for this info. I can confirm that the truck didn't ask for more than 11 amps from my OpenEVSE set to advertise 24 amps when plugged into a 120V 30A circuit.

This should be updatable via software if Ford decided so right?

Tesla was able to do it by upgrading the firmware in the chargers - after enough people complained, engineering put together a fix and pushed it out. I'm assuming Ford (or its suppliers) can do the same - there's really no reason why it couldn't, because it already needs to listen to the J1772 signal for level 2, it's just a matter of extending that to level 1.

 

[wighty]

I was operating under the same assumption as you, which is why I too wasinterested in buying it…..thx for sharing!!

Juice got back to me and seemed to confirm the booster 2 should be able to provide the 24 amps at 120v with the adapters (also said the US adapters should be available soon), so now just need to see if Ford updates the truck I guess.

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