Flipper prices around MSRP now.

[bmwhitetx]

If you just sold the truck, anyone who would have bought it would have been eligible for the EV tax rebate. So they paid a $13.5K premium. (Nothing has changed except the requirement for NA assembly. Other changes happen in January.)

I don't think this is correct. If they buy a truck from a flipper they are not eligible for the New Vehicle Tax Credit. Would they file the form anyway, maybe, but risk audit.

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[Blainestang]

Taycan(e-tron GTs) are cool, but there are quite a lot of problems that people are reporting. Plus, the base Taycan is slower than the Lightning and the 4S is just slightly faster...embarrassing. The Germans are really sandbagging their EV performance to make them slot into their gas car lineups price wise.

The Tesla Y with an optional paint and white interior is around $72K now!

I wouldn't be "embarrassed" to have a Taycan because it's slower 0-60. It would demolish a Lightning on a track. Apples-to-oranges. A Lightning Lariat isn't any faster than a $40k Pro. Is that embarrassing?

So, Model Y is still cheaper and quicker and faster at road tripping and has the Tesla charging network and can use CCS. It's not for everyone and Lightning has plenty of advantages, too.

Obviously, there are plenty of personal preferences and use case decisions that influence buying. I'm just saying it's not obvious that an $80k Lightning is the "best car/truck on the market." It's *arguably* the best, but depending on use case and personal preferences, it may be the best or top 3 or top 10, but there are a few that are competitive if you've got $80k-$90k to spend, for sure.

 

[Blainestang]

I don't think this is correct. If they buy a truck from a flipper they are not eligible for the New Vehicle Tax Credit. Would they file the form anyway, maybe, but risk audit.

I think he meant to say "ineligible" or "not eligible" based on the part about $13,500 ($6k + $7.5k). But it's a moot point because if they could get a Lightning this year they almost certainly wouldn't be paying a $6k markup to get it a month or two sooner, and in January the credit goes away for trucks >$80k.

So, $6k markup is correct. $13,500 is not, in this case.

 

[sotek2345]

Depends on your use case and what trim it is, IMO.

If it's a $40k Pro, then yeah, it's basically unbeatable by any EV or gas vehicle on value. Maybe someone could argue a Bolt is fine for some use cases and cheaper, but I think the Pro wins on overall value.

An $80k Lariat, though? It's great, but I don't think it's clearly better than a Rivian that some people have locked in in for less money (see poster above who sold his Lariat to keep a Rivian). Both are great and it's probably personal preference between them. There are also several other EVs that are cheaper and more efficient and faster road-trippers IF you don't need a truck (Mach E GT, Ioniq5, Model 3, Y, etc.). Heck, you could get a Porsche Taycan for similar money if it's just for a family vehicle or commuter.

Lightning is a GREAT vehicle, one of the best, for sure, but at $80k-$90k, there are some other great vehicles out there. I don't think it's crazy to sell if you decide you'd rather have a Mach E GT, Rivian, Model Y, Taycan, if you can get one (that's the tough part).

Curious why you think the Mach-e GT is a faster road tripper. We have both and they are about equal, maybe a slight edge to the Lightning for a little more highway range (very little)

 

[lightspeed]

I think he meant to say "ineligible" or "not eligible" based on the part about $13,500 ($6k + $7.5k). But it's a moot point because if they could get a Lightning this year they almost certainly wouldn't be paying a $6k markup to get it a month or two sooner, and in January the credit goes away for trucks >$80k.

So, $6k markup is correct. $13,500 is not, in this case.

Sorry I wasn't more clear.

I meant that all of the flippers are taking spots for people who would have been eligible for the EV rebate. Obviously, if you're 200K on the list, this doesn't matter, but if you were 25K-th on the list (whatever the precise number is) and 5000 before you are flippers, you might push beyond the EV rebate window because of the flippers. So, for those people, they are going to pay $13.5K or so more than they had to.

Flippers can do what they want, it's a free market, but that doesn't mean we have to like it.

 

[Blainestang]

Curious why you think the Mach-e GT is a faster road tripper. We have both and they are about equal, maybe a slight edge to the Lightning for a little more highway range (very little)

I added the Mach E GT to the list as a late addition, and thought "hmm, I don't know for sure if the Mach E GT is actually faster, but the other ones are. I could make a separate category for Mach E GT... nah, I'll just leave it."

Sure enough, I should have created a separate category haha.

 

[lightspeed]

I wouldn't be "embarrassed" to have a Taycan because it's slower 0-60. It would demolish a Lightning on a track. Apples-to-oranges. A Lightning Lariat isn't any faster than a $40k Pro. Is that embarrassing?

So, Model Y is still cheaper and quicker and faster at road tripping and has the Tesla charging network and can use CCS. It's not for everyone and Lightning has plenty of advantages, too.

Obviously, there are plenty of personal preferences and use case decisions that influence buying. I'm just saying it's not obvious that an $80k Lightning is the "best car/truck on the market." It's *arguably* the best, but depending on use case and personal preferences, it may be the best or top 3 or top 10, but there are a few that are competitive if you've got $80k-$90k to spend, for sure.

That "on a track" argument is true, but also hollow, since so few Taycan owners will ever track their car. But either way, my point was that Porsche is artificially making the Taycan slow because they don't want them to outshine the 911 in performance/price. A Taycan Turbo S costs almost nothing more to make than a 4S yet is $90K more because that performance is compared against the 911 Turbo S.

The pro is technically slower with the smaller battery, but either way, it's not embarrassing because Ford didn't artificially sandbag the cheaper truck.

But this is just yapping about cars. I have no emotional investment in what people buy for whatever reasons.

 

[metroshot]

Curious why you think the Mach-e GT is a faster road tripper. We have both and they are about equal, maybe a slight edge to the Lightning for a little more highway range (very little)

I just got word from Ford that my wife's MME is now scheduled.

She may not want it after a recent long distance road trip so I am thinking of downsizing as the Lightning is too large to maneuver in urban city driving.

If I can get back what I paid for the Lightning at MSRP + TTL - including the $7500 tax credit + $2750 state rebates that makes a lot of sense for me to get the MME....

The incoming MME is '23 but getting it at '22 prices ($6,000 private cash offer).

 

[Blainestang]

That "on a track" argument is true, but also hollow, since so few Taycan owners will ever track their car.

Most people won't tow 10k lb with their Lightning, either, or completely fill the bed to max payload, etc. Point is, it's a totally different car with different pros and cons.

The pro is technically slower with the smaller battery, but either way, it's not embarrassing because Ford didn't artificially sandbag the cheaper truck.

0-60 the Pro is slower? I haven't seen anything definitively showing it's slower to 60mph, but I could have missed it. It's slower at higher speeds, but it's very close at 60mph. It has less peak hp, but also lower weight (smaller battery), and the way that extra hp often works with EVs using the same battery, the difference doesn't show up until 40-50mph usually.

I have no emotional investment in what people buy for whatever reasons.

You said it was "stupid to sell because the Lightning was the best car/truck available", which is what I was responding to in the first place.

Anyway, I've made my point: The Lightning is great, but there are other very good vehicles that people might find to be preferable to the Lightning at $80-90k, so I don't think it's inherently "stupid" to sell one or that it's obviously the best car on the market. Lots of variables and preferences.

 

[DanielM92563]

Taycan(e-tron GTs) are cool, but there are quite a lot of problems that people are reporting. Plus, the base Taycan is slower than the Lightning and the 4S is just slightly faster...embarrassing. The Germans are really sandbagging their EV performance to make them slot into their gas car lineups price wise.

The Tesla Y with an optional paint and white interior is around $72K now!

My wife has a Taycan Cross Turismo, it’s an amazing car- the interior quality and comfort is at another level as is the driving dynamics especially with rear wheel steering she even has thermal imaging and a head up display for added safety, 0-60 is high 4 sec (with launch control)- she loves that car and she thinks we’ll worth the extra 30k she paid for it compared to what I paid for my Lariat Lightning- do I agree with her ? Hell no, but it’s a totally different car. People find more value in different aspects of the car.

 

[Flashy McLightning]

I just got word from Ford that my wife's MME is now scheduled.

She may not want it after a recent long distance road trip so I am thinking of downsizing as the Lightning is too large to maneuver in urban city driving.

If I can get back what I paid for the Lightning at MSRP + TTL - including the $7500 tax credit + $2750 state rebates that makes a lot of sense for me to get the MME....

The incoming MME is '23 but getting it at '22 prices ($6,000 private cash offer).

I’ve hedged my Lightning Pro with a Maverick hybrid order. I need to see how well it fits in the garage with the other cars and how comfortable my GF and daughter are driving it.

 

[lightspeed]

You said it was "stupid to sell because the Lightning was the best car/truck available", which is what I was responding to in the first place.

I never said it was stupid to sell the Lightning. That was somebody else.

 

[Blainestang]

I never said it was stupid to sell the Lightning. That was somebody else.

Yep, my mistake!

 

[Regular150]

Don't see your price drop. You can't just look at "Lariat" and the sold price. They're still going plus 10k and the buyer pays Cars and Bids $4k fee. Lariats on there that sold past 10 days all got way over sticker. Platinums as well.

 

[lightspeed]

Ugh after taxes those sellers didn't make anything except the EV rebate which is going away soon. Maybe if you live in a sales tax free state or something it might work.

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